Chameleon Theory: Detecting the Particle with Astronomical Surveys

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the chameleon theory and its implications for detecting hypothetical particles associated with modified gravity models, particularly in the context of galaxy formation and cosmological observations. Participants explore the potential observational signatures that could distinguish general relativity from alternatives like f(R) gravity, as well as the challenges of direct detection of chameleon particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a paper discussing simulations of galaxy formation in f(R) modified gravity, suggesting that future astronomical surveys could provide data to test gravity on cosmological scales.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the direct detection of chameleon particles, arguing that observable impacts would primarily be gravitational and that current observations place strong constraints on their properties.
  • Another participant notes that the paper indicates galaxy formation could occur under the assumption of chameleon particles, raising questions about the theory's value if it cannot be tested directly.
  • There is a suggestion that indirect testing might be possible, drawing a parallel to the lack of direct detection of quarks.
  • One participant clarifies that while direct measurement of the particle may be unlikely, evidence for the theory could still arise from structure formation being explained through this model, especially if it fits poorly with dark energy models that do not include modified gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the detectability of chameleon particles, with some believing that direct detection is unlikely while others suggest that indirect evidence could still support the theory. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the feasibility and implications of testing the chameleon theory.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of structure formation and the challenges in accurately modeling it, which may affect the ability to draw clear conclusions about the validity of the chameleon theory compared to other models.

fresh_42
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TL;DR
Does this only sound interesting, or is it a good candidate?
I came across the following paper by Christian Arnold, Matteo Leo & Baojiu LiRealistic simulations of galaxy formation in ##f(R)## modified gravity
Abstract said:
Future astronomical surveys will gather information that will allow gravity to be tested on cosmological scales, where general relativity is currently poorly constrained. We present a set of cosmological hydrodynamical simulations that follow galaxy formation in f(R) modified gravity models and are dedicated to finding observational signatures to help distinguish general relativity from alternatives using this information. The simulations employ the Illustris TNG model and a new modified gravity solver in AREPO, allowing the interplay of baryonic feedback and modified gravity to be studied in the same simulation, and the degeneracy between them in the matter power spectrum to be resolved. We find that the neutral hydrogen power spectrum is suppressed substantially in f(R) gravity, which allows this model to be constrained using upcoming data from the Square Kilometre Array. Disk galaxies can form in our f(R) gravity simulations, even in the partially screened regime, and their galaxy stellar properties are only mildly affected. We conclude that modified gravity allows the formation of realistic galaxies and leaves observable signatures on large scales.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-019-0823-y
From what I have read on Wikipedia about the chameleon theory, it only left one question: How are the chances to detect such a particle?
 
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I'm not sure such particles could ever be detected directly. I believe the primary observable impacts would all be gravitational, and the current lack of detection places very strong constraints on the properties of a hypothetical chameleon particle.

As I understand it, the principle observational evidence would come from structure formation. This may include observations of the cosmic microwave background, the frequency of galaxies of different masses at different redshifts (which I think this paper explores), and observations of the integrated Sachs-Wolfe effect (which is impacted by the rate at which large-scale structures change over time).
 
kimbyd said:
which I think this paper explores
I found the paper as scientific source of a pop science article which said, that they have used a big computer and could show galaxy formation could have taken place under the assumption of chameleon particles. This agrees with your statement about possible evidence, and made me curious. If it can explain DE and still leads to the same structures on a cosmological scale while simultaneously allowing GR to be accurate on a local scale, then it reads as if it is what we are looking for. But if it does all that and we have no chance to test it, then what is it worth?
 
You might be able to test indirectly. There are no direct quark detections, for example.
 
fresh_42 said:
I found the paper as scientific source of a pop science article which said, that they have used a big computer and could show galaxy formation could have taken place under the assumption of chameleon particles. This agrees with your statement about possible evidence, and made me curious. If it can explain DE and still leads to the same structures on a cosmological scale while simultaneously allowing GR to be accurate on a local scale, then it reads as if it is what we are looking for. But if it does all that and we have no chance to test it, then what is it worth?
I didn't say no chance to test it. I said little to no chance to directly measure the particle, which isn't the only way to build evidence for a theory.

If structure formation can be shown to be explainable through this theory but hard to fit with other theories, that might provide evidence in its favor. The reality is that this is often hard to do, as the details of structure formation are extremely complex and difficult to accurately model. But it's at least possible in principle for the history of structure formation to be easily fit by this kind of model but basically impossible to fit with a dark energy model that doesn't contain modified gravity.
 

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