News China vs. America: Which Country is More Developed?

[infomax]

Hi freinds i am not from any of the above countries
but I have always wondered which one of them is developed(which answer I have not got so far)
I know its not good to strive for knowing so but I couldnot stop from doing that.
Thanks in advance

 

[humanino]

If you mean USA, they indeed can not compete with China in terms of human right violations.

 

[lisab]

You're going to have to define what you mean by "developed."

 

[junglebeast]

China has developed a larger area..

 

[exportedhuman]

China has the tallest building

It's likely that we can enjoy China's scenic spots esp its longest river soon.

I'm loving it!

 

[russ_watters]

"Developed" with no other context given typically means economically developed. China is typically considered a "developing" country due to its high poverty and incomplete industrialization while the USA is "developed".

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'd say that China has a long way to go on issues of pollution, food and product safety, and fair trade practices.

One personal source of frustration for me is that American companies are asked to compete with Chinese companies that don't have to answer to the USDA, or OSHA, or the EPA. By the same token, as futurist Alvin Toffler noted, China will eventually have to pay a huge price for disastrously polluted rivers, ground water, land, air, and contaminated food. One might say that while the US has been living on credit from China and other countries, China is living on borrowed time. They will be forced to address these issues as we were, and they will lose the tremendous competitive advantage that they now enjoy.

 

[infomax]

You're going to have to define what you mean by "developed."

lets become specific, develop incase of economy

 

[infomax]

I really lack of economic Knowledge and I asked this because its favourite iscussion in our college breaks after " relativity'

 

[Chi Meson]

China's development is surprisingly like that of USA's, except they are moving at such a rapid pace. Still, I read (can't recall where, I think is was The Atlantic magazine, which is quite left-of-center yet still authentic journalism most of the time; I mean its facts are reliable, but they are without question interpreting them through blue-tinted goggles--still its nothing compared with the NewsCorp treatment of "facts". In The Atlantic, you wouldn't be reading an article that lambasts "Conservatives" for every bad thing the way NewsCorp outlets dribble the word "Liberal"...)...I forgot what I was saying...

Right, I read that ALL of China, put together, still does not use as much gasoline as the state of California. So China has a way to go before they "out-America" the Americans! Now, let's all go burn raw garbage for heat! We don't want China to out-do us as polluters, do we?

 

[infomax]

And mostly I find the chinese scientific field is tending to achieve high except Space programmes which are very new project to them while America is father in father of all in space programmes

 

[mohd_adam]

Of course America now is more developed than china . But the direction of the arrow reefers to America now in a journey of 'descending' , and china now in a journey of 'rising'.

 

[infomax]

I am sorry to state ,please I beg sorry if it hurts
The reality is also that America's development is open at the media level
And the china most work inside without showing outside much to the world

 

[Moonbear]

I am sorry to state ,please I beg sorry if it hurts
The reality is also that America's development is open at the media level
And the china most work inside without showing outside much to the world

That's because of their own doing...it's the Chinese government that blocks transparency, leaving the rest of the world wondering what it is they need to hide.

I agree with others that China is still developing, and yes, it seems they have not bothered to take a lesson from other developed countries to avoid making the same mistakes. China undoubtedly has something akin to the US's superfund clean-up sites in their future, which is very unfortunate since the technology and knowledge to prevent it exists.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Ordinarily, I would say that the US has it all over China. However, you never know where my wife may be lurking about. But you have to admit, we have one thing they don't. Chinatown.

 

[JasonRox]

That's because of their own doing...it's the Chinese government that blocks transparency, leaving the rest of the world wondering what it is they need to hide.

I agree with others that China is still developing, and yes, it seems they have not bothered to take a lesson from other developed countries to avoid making the same mistakes. China undoubtedly has something akin to the US's superfund clean-up sites in their future, which is very unfortunate since the technology and knowledge to prevent it exists.

It's kind of difficult for a country trying to become developped to start funding such projects. Yes they are every important, but the USA has never had such funding in the past... even for a large part when they actually were developped.

I think China should just play it safe so they won't need such a fund in the future. Clearly, they are not choosing that route. We can't criticize too much since the US and Canada were much worse I bet.

 

[Chi Meson]

Ordinarily, I would say that the US has it all over China. However, you never know where my wife may be lurking about. But you have to admit, we have one thing they don't. Chinatown.

They have a very nice "Englandtown" (Hong Kong).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Of course America now is more developed than china . But the direction of the arrow reefers to America now in a journey of 'descending' , and china now in a journey of 'rising'.

People have been trying to write-off the US since we first came to be. In the beginning, the Brits thought us to be barbarians who needed a King. You can probably still find Brits who refer to us as "the colonies". Sixty years ago, the Soviet said that they would bury us. Of course the Soviet doesn't exist anymore. Back in the 1970s, it was going to be Japan. Then it was going to be India. Now it is supposed to be China.

What people consistently fail to understand is America's phenomenal ability to renew itself. It is an essential aspect of our culture - our free-thinking and innovative approach to problems, and free markets.

I would add special emphasis to the notion of "free thinking". One might also note that in a global economy, we will all rise and fall together. as we have seen.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Note for example that the US claims credit for the transistor, the integrated circuit, the PC [which was invented in a garage near my home back then], both the DOS and Windows operating systems, and the internet.

 

[JaredJames]

The internet? I find nothing to support the internet was invented by the US. It claims to have as you put it, but I wasn't sure if you supported it or not so I just thought I would question it. According to everything I know and have found the internet could appear anywhere in the world where two computer networks are connected. Nobody truly knows where this first occurred officially.

Don't know how trustworthy this link is, but the response from a quick google gives links very similar to this.
http://www.nethistory.info/History of the Internet/origins.html

 

[russ_watters]

Of course America now is more developed than china . But the direction of the arrow reefers to America now in a journey of 'descending' ...

Could you clarify what you mean by that? Based on economic growth, poverty, standard of living, etc., that certainly is not true, unless you look at the current economic cycle (ie, the past year) only. Or are you making the prediction that the current recession is the beginning of a long term trend?

 

[russ_watters]

I think China should just play it safe so they won't need such a fund in the future. Clearly, they are not choosing that route. We can't criticize too much since the US and Canada were much worse I bet.

It's tough to know just how bad it is in China since it is a closed society, but the thing that we do hear a lot about - air pollution - far exceeds the worst we've ever had here. England had some really awful air pollution that was based largely on the weather not clearing it out, but nevertheless, air pollution laws cleared that up. But the worst LA air pollution of a decade ago (before the clean air act started to clean it up) never compared to what dozens of cities in China see on a normal basis. No one ever shoveled soot off the sidewalks in LA with a snowshovel.

If China is anything like the USSR, though, their pollution situation in general (the parts we don't know about yet) likely vastly exceeds the worst the US or Canada ever had.

 

[JasonRox]

It's tough to know just how bad it is in China since it is a closed society, but the thing that we do hear a lot about - air pollution - far exceeds the worst we've ever had here. England had some really awful air pollution that was based largely on the weather not clearing it out, but nevertheless, air pollution laws cleared that up. But the worst LA air pollution of a decade ago (before the clean air act started to clean it up) never compared to what dozens of cities in China see on a normal basis. No one ever shoveled soot off the sidewalks in LA with a snowshovel.

If China is anything like the USSR, though, their pollution situation in general (the parts we don't know about yet) likely vastly exceeds the worst the US or Canada ever had.

Eventually I'm sure China will pass a clean air act just like England and LA did. What leads us to believe they won't?

China I'm sure has bad air pollution. Their population also far exceeds that of US and Canada combined. It might even have better air if we calculate per capita.

It's really hard to judge. I just don't think it's right that we jump the gun and make demands on a developping country. Considering we are still much more wasteful I'm sure.

Just by looking at the behaviour of my Chinese friends... I can tell they don't waste half as much as Canadian citizens.

 

[JaredJames]

Eventually I'm sure China will pass a clean air act just like England and LA did. What leads us to believe they won't?

China I'm sure has bad air pollution. Their population also far exceeds that of US and Canada combined. It might even have better air if we calculate per capita.

It's really hard to judge. I just don't it's right that we jump the gun and make demands on a developping country.

Given the current demands on the UK, US and many other countries regarding emissions and global warming, why should China be any different? I read somewhere once they were having to build 2 coal fired power stations a week to keep up with demand.

Interesting however, read this article, it points out that there are 2 power plants a week, but also that their per person emissions are less than a 'rich' country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6769743.stm

It is estimated that the average American still pollutes between five and six times more than the average Chinese person.

 

[russ_watters]

The internet? I find nothing to support the internet was invented by the US. It claims to have as you put it, but I wasn't sure if you supported it or not so I just thought I would question it. According to everything I know and have found the internet could appear anywhere in the world where two computer networks are connected. Nobody truly knows where this first occurred officially.

"The Internet" isn't a single invention, so there are a lot of individual pieces to the puzzle, but the history is quite well documented and the vast majority of the inventions/innovations that led to it came from the US. In particular, the concept of a network of computer networks was a major project of the US defense department and the internet grew from that concept.

Don't know how trustworthy this link is, but the response from a quick google gives links very similar to this.
http://www.nethistory.info/History of the Internet/origins.html

That link reads like it is designed specifically to debunk the idea that the US originated the the internet, not like a site designed to discuss the origin of the internet. A key quote:

We are almost always told that the Internet began solely in America. This is not really true.

No, no one educated says that. Anyone with knowledge of the subject knows that at least some of the enabling technologies and research came from overseas. The point of using the absolute is to set up an easy strawman to knock down. But regardless of that motivation, the US has the dominant involvement in all of their "theories" about the origin of the internet ("theories" is in quotes because this isn't something you can theorize on: it is a simple matter of historical facts).

Furthermore, the ARPANET formed the physical basis for what became the internet. So all research that made contributions to the development of the internet eventually were implimented into this US creation and its offspring.

Since it says it is based largely on the PBS documentary Nerds 2.0.1, why not go to the source and get the whole picture? Here it is:
http://www.pbs.org/opb/nerds2.0.1/timeline/

 

[Hurkyl]

Eventually I'm sure China will pass a clean air act just like England and LA did. What leads us to believe they won't?

"I speculate that in the future, a law will be passed" isn't exactly compelling evidence to support your assertion that the US and Canada are much worse. At best, it's irrelevant...

Just by looking at the behaviour of my Chinese friends... I can tell they don't waste half as much as Canadian citizens.

Setting aside the fact I have no reason to trust your judgement on this matter -- are you seriously trying to extrapolate the behavior of China from a biased sample of two citizens living in an entirely different country?

 

[russ_watters]

Eventually I'm sure China will pass a clean air act just like England and LA did. What leads us to believe they won't?

They are communist.

China I'm sure has bad air pollution. Their population also far exceeds that of US and Canada combined. It might even have better air if we calculate per capita.

I'm not sure what the point of a per capit air pollution calculation would be - it doesn't make it any easier to breathe in China if you calculate their air pollution to be lower because the population density is higher.

 

[russ_watters]

Given the current demands on the UK, US and many other countries regarding emissions and global warming, why should China be any different? I read somewhere once they were having to build 2 coal fired power stations a week to keep up with demand.

You answered your own question: China is the largest producer of CO2 and their production growth is accelerating while the production growth of the US, UK and most other developed nations is slowing.

Interesting however, read this article, it points out that there are 2 power plants a week, but also that their per person emissions are less than a 'rich' country.

If we are to believe that global warming is real and needs to be stopped, that argument cannot be accepted. See the ozone hole for how it must work: China was given access to technology, but had to phase out CFCs just like everyone else.

 

[JasonRox]

"I speculate that in the future, a law will be passed" isn't exactly compelling evidence to support your assertion that the US and Canada are much worse. At best, it's irrelevant...


Setting aside the fact I have no reason to trust your judgement on this matter -- are you seriously trying to extrapolate the behavior of China from a biased sample of two citizens living in an entirely different country?

Who said sample is only two citizens?

Seriously, Canadians are Americans are extremely wasteful. Even in a wasteful country, my Chinese friends waste very little.

 

[humanino]

Hi Jason,

my Chinese friends

if I am not mistaken, all your chineese friends come from a biased sample of individuals who live in Canada and (I guess) pursue studies at the University level. I think you have not taken the full measure of Hurkyl's words.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not sure what the point of a per capit air pollution calculation would be - it doesn't make it any easier to breathe in China if you calculate their air pollution to be lower because the population density is higher.

I agree, it doesn't make the air any better, and if anything, argues for them to be even stricter about each individual's efforts toward curbing air pollution, because the population density is so much higher that each little bit adds up to a lot more much faster.

Jason, what exactly is the relevance of someone of Chinese ancestry who is actually a Canadian? They might be completely different from the general population in China, hence the decision to leave the country for another one.

 

[infomax]

Coming to track again
I have always realized that the developing trend of American and european civilization is very reasonable,their bases are firm, they have prepared nice conclusions in every step of their civilization and their development is seem to be more matured
While the chinese with lot of hardship (nearly 20 hrswork) have managed to make frog jump in development , but really is it stable?

 

[JasonRox]

I agree, it doesn't make the air any better, and if anything, argues for them to be even stricter about each individual's efforts toward curbing air pollution, because the population density is so much higher that each little bit adds up to a lot more much faster.

Jason, what exactly is the relevance of someone of Chinese ancestry who is actually a Canadian? They might be completely different from the general population in China, hence the decision to leave the country for another one.

Um... they are all Chinese born. The one that has been here the longest is 7 years and came here at the age 16 and also travels back during that time. Most have been here only 2-3 years at the age of 19-20 or older. Each and every one of them is less wasteful than fellow Canadians. That means something.

 

[Hurkyl]

That means something.

No, it really doesn't.

 

[JasonRox]

No, it really doesn't.

And how does it not... explain.

Canadians here are extremely wasteful and they aren't. It's not a conclusion. It's a sample essentially. All the 20 year olds I see here are extremely wasteful and all of them (Chinese) I've seen are not.

Essentially giving my observation.

 

[JasonRox]

They are communist.

And that implies they won't? Explain please.

 

[JasonRox]

Given the current demands on the UK, US and many other countries regarding emissions and global warming, why should China be any different? I read somewhere once they were having to build 2 coal fired power stations a week to keep up with demand.

Interesting however, read this article, it points out that there are 2 power plants a week, but also that their per person emissions are less than a 'rich' country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6769743.stm

You guys just said it's hard to get data from China... why are you choosing to believe this fact? It's from the UK not China.

 

[lisab]

Coming to track again
I have always realized that the developing trend of American and european civilization is very reasonable,their bases are firm, they have prepared nice conclusions in every step of their civilization and their development is seem to be more matured
While the chinese with lot of hardship (nearly 20 hrswork) have managed to make frog jump in development , but really is it stable?

That's a good point, infomax. A long history of stabilization is a good indication of future stability.

But even though China's *recent* history has been stormy, I think a good case could be made that they have an incredibly long history, and a successful civilization.

 

[humanino]

Essentially giving my observation.

How many individuals ? How are they supposed to faithfully represent the entire population of a country as large as China, and how do you evaluate the significance of your qualitative judgement on their behavior ? Can you quantify wastefulness somehow ? Is your sample not restricted to a handful of highly educated individual who in addition benefited from the opportunity to live in a quite richer country than the one they came from ? Jason, no offense, did you actually study statistical tests ?

 

[Moonbear]

Um... they are all Chinese born. The one that has been here the longest is 7 years and came here at the age 16 and also travels back during that time. Most have been here only 2-3 years at the age of 19-20 or older. Each and every one of them is less wasteful than fellow Canadians. That means something.

It could mean that they are poorer than the average Canadian, so need to be more careful with their budget. Or, it could mean they are more appreciative of the opportunities they have in a new country. Or, it could mean that they have seen the disastrous consequences of many people being wasteful of resources in their own country, and having the education and opportunity to do differently, they are. None of this means that those who have LEFT China are at all representative of the people who have remained there. It could be their vast disagreement with the way things are done in their homeland that they have chosen to leave it to move to Canada.

 

[JasonRox]

How many individuals ? How are they supposed to faithfully represent the entire population of a country as large as China, and how do you evaluate the significance of your qualitative judgement on their behavior ? Can you quantify wastefulness somehow ? Is your sample not restricted to a handful of highly educated individual who in addition benefited from the opportunity to live in a quite richer country than the one they came from ? Jason, no offense, did you actually study statistical tests ?

I thought this was GD.

I'm stating simple observation of behaviour. They don't ever throw a handful of food in the garbage ever. I see Canadians do that all the time.

Not all are highly educated individuals either. There are older adults as adults... like their parents.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2004/11/23/6445.aspx

http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200916/3464/Chinese-climate-official-hits-out-at-wasteful-and-luxurious-Western-lifestyles

There is no doubt in my mind that waste/pollution measured on a per person basis that the USA would lose. And that's even after China producing the junk for the Americans who waste it.

 

[JasonRox]

It could be their vast disagreement with the way things are done in their homeland that they have chosen to leave it to move to Canada.

If they chose to not be wasteful, coming to Canada is a mistake. Very wasteful people here for sure.

By the age of 6 months, the average Canadian has consumed the same amount of resources as the average person in the developing world consumes in a lifetime.
-Recycling Council of Ontario

http://www.wrwcanada.com/download_facts.htm

I don't think the numbers will be that different than an American baby. Seriously, Canada and America is the home to the wasteful.

 

[infomax]

From jasonRox link


study from the University of Arizona in Tucson indicates that forty to fifty percent of all food ready for harvest never gets eaten.

It would be better if they send those food to starving nation like ethiopia and somalia

 

[JasonRox]

From jasonRox link


study from the University of Arizona in Tucson indicates that forty to fifty percent of all food ready for harvest never gets eaten.

It would be better if they send those food to starving nation like ethiopia and somalia

It's funny because a lot of the waste China produces is actually from the demand we put on them to produce all the junk we actually waste. So essentially, it's our waste. China should try to do it cleaner, but really, we are the heart of the problem.

 

[lisab]

If they chose to not be wasteful, coming to Canada is a mistake. Very wasteful people here for sure.

By the age of 6 months, the average Canadian has consumed the same amount of resources as the average person in the developing world consumes in a lifetime.
-Recycling Council of Ontario

http://www.wrwcanada.com/download_facts.htm

I don't think the numbers will be that different than an American baby. Seriously, Canada and America is the home to the wasteful.

Just curious, Jason...has this changed at all in Canada, in the last few months (since the recession)?

Here in the US, I've noticed tremendous change in the way people approach their use of non-recyclable commodities.

Sorry to be a bit off topic .

 

[infomax]

yes i agree

 

[infomax]

It's funny because a lot of the waste China produces is actually from the demand we put on them to produce all the junk we actually waste. So essentially, it's our waste. China should try to do it cleaner, but really, we are the heart of the problem.

yes i agree

 

[JasonRox]

Just curious, Jason...has this changed at all in Canada, in the last few months (since the recession)?

Here in the US, I've noticed tremendous change in the way people approach their use of non-recyclable commodities.

Sorry to be a bit off topic .

Well, people try to save money but that doesn't mean they are consciously thinking of reducing waste. It's about money all over again. All this waste began because we live in a money hungry economy focused society. It's not all that bad, but it's really hit a breaking point.

I'm actually hoping it gets worse and worse. I hope it hits depression. I think in order for the culture that currently exists here to change, we need something big to happen.

 

[Hurkyl]

I thought this was GD.

GD means "general discussion", not "you're allowed to make bad arguments".

 

[CRGreathouse]

I'm stating simple observation of behaviour. They don't ever throw a handful of food in the garbage ever. I see Canadians do that all the time.

As your sample is small and not blind or random, it means nothing to me. If it was (somewhat) larger, blind, and random it would be a good measure of how Canadians of Chinese ancestry act wrt waste. But even then I don't know how much it would tell me about China vs. Canada or Chinese vs. Canadians. You're not controlling for income or the differences between expats and the rest of the population.

There is no doubt in my mind that waste/pollution measured on a per person basis that the USA would lose. And that's even after China producing the junk for the Americans who waste it.

I'm sure you'd find that waste is higher per person in the US and higher per GDP in the PRC.