Choosing Between a C or W on a Transcript: What's Worse?

[ice109]

on the a transcript? a C or a W?

 

[DefaultName]

Probably a C. If you have only 1 or 2 W's, I don't think it matters as much.

(I'm assuming W = withdraw).

 

[CPL.Luke]

some universities allow you to switch any class that your taking to an audit as long as your passing, this would be much better than a w, it also allows you to keep on showing up.

 

[ice109]

anyone else?

 

[lisab]

I think a W looks better than a C. But like DefaultName said, don't get too many of them.

 

[robphy]

W will probably not affect your GPA.

 

[bravernix]

I think it depends. If it is a course you will retake later, you'd better get an A next time.

 

[Ex1]

(Assuming I understand the concept of withdrawn correctly) I think it depends what class you are withdrawing from and what you replace it with - or do - afterwards.

If you're going to withdraw from something pretty fundamental then it's going to raise questions and look worse than a C, but if you're leaving something less important and replace it with something more traditional, then having that new, better class on your transcript it going to be a definite plus.

If it is a sensible, important class then I'd take the C, but then I've never been overly bothered about grades. No one in the real world has ever asked what grades I got in my degree either so long term, in summary, grades probably don't matter as much as what classes you take. HTH.

 

[scorpa]

I had a W in my first year, it was in a class that I was doing extremely well in (had 100%), but just decided it was not the direction I wanted to go with my degree and withdrew from it so I could focus on courses more relevant to the program I was trying to get into. The W has never been an issue, sometimes I forget I even withdrew from a class, no advisor has ever cared and it didnt prevent me from getting into my program whereas a C might have.

 

[symbolipoint]

The grade record of W has very little meaning unless you produce more than about 1 W per year. This makes comparing W to C very difficult. grade of D is worse than C. You should sensibly withdraw from a course in which either you do not need "now", or if you are earning less than a C. If you are earning a C, you really should continue and work hard enough to do better (if better might be possible).

Really, difficult to judge. Anyone take two passes through each of a sequence of courses in order to achieve C or better? W's for those purposes might look bad, but then they look at least better than D's or F's. This is in great part why I suggest that you hopefully do not produce more than one W per year, especially in a sequence of courses.

 

[mathwonk]

anyone with my experience knows a W is an F, with 99% certainty.

 

[symbolipoint]

anyone with my experience knows a W is an F, with 99% certainty.

Does that mean that a W is in most cases worse than a C?

 

[leright]

anyone with my experience knows a W is an F, with 99% certainty.

I have two Ws on my transcript but I dropped one because of scheduling conflicts with work and the other was because I realized I didn't need the class.

 

[will.c]

I have two Ws on my transcript but I dropped one because of scheduling conflicts with work and the other was because I realized I didn't need the class.

You are a single data point.

 

[rocomath]

C > W

W > F

 

[ekrim]

In many cases a W shouldn't be a big deal at all: i.e. major change, unnecessary class
I wouldn't collect them though, and it probably looks bad if you withdraw and then take the class later

 

[mgiddy911]

W -->F, 99% Surely you Jest...

 

[mathwonk]

i have been teaching for 30 years at a state school, and have given W's to approximately 40% of all calculus students during that time.

Of those, all but one that I can recall were failing miserably when they took the W.

so that is actually far higher than 99% F's.

essentially no one at my school takes a W for ANY reason except they are getting an F.

the one exception was an honors student who was getting an A-, and wanted an easy A.

In that case the W was worse than an F, as it also denoted a student with no guts, and no self respect, unwilling to accept a challenge.

so a W actually suggests poor performance at the F level, and lack of commitment.

 

[ekrim]

i have been teaching for 30 years at a state school, and have given W's to approximately 40% of all calculus students during that time.

Of those, all but one that I can recall were failing miserably when they took the W.

so that is actually far higher than 99% F's.

essentially no one at my school takes a W for ANY reason except they are getting an F.

the one exception was an honors student who was getting an A-, and wanted an easy A.

In that case the W was worse than an F, as it also denoted a student with no guts, and no self respect, unwilling to accept a challenge.

so a W actually suggests poor performance at the F level, and lack of commitment.

That may be correct on the statistics, but a W will not imply anything that your resume doesn't already.

 

[symbolipoint]

That may be correct on the statistics, but a W will not imply anything that your resume doesn't already.

Many employers want to see college transcripts, not just the résumé. Your resume may help you look good on paper, while the transcript may suggest (only) that you had trouble in some subject area; and this trouble may not necessarily be significant for the position for which the company will use you. IF the W's are in too many courses of your major field, then you could run into problems with some employers. Hopefully you gained very valuable on-the-job experience or training to overcome this.

 

[ekrim]

Many employers want to see college transcripts, not just the résumé. Your resume may help you look good on paper, while the transcript may suggest (only) that you had trouble in some subject area; and this trouble may not necessarily be significant for the position for which the company will use you. IF the W's are in too many courses of your major field, then you could run into problems with some employers. Hopefully you gained very valuable on-the-job experience or training to overcome this.

by resume, I really mean academic history. i.e. GPA, what class you dropped, what year

 

[lisab]

If the course is on core material (i.e., Calculus or first year Physics), you will really need to know the material better than at the grade "C" level. Take the W and re-take the class; if it's a core class, really learning the material is critical -- it will put you in a position to do well in later courses.

 

[DefaultName]

i have been teaching for 30 years at a state school, and have given W's to approximately 40% of all calculus students during that time.

Of those, all but one that I can recall were failing miserably when they took the W.

so that is actually far higher than 99% F's.

essentially no one at my school takes a W for ANY reason except they are getting an F.

the one exception was an honors student who was getting an A-, and wanted an easy A.

In that case the W was worse than an F, as it also denoted a student with no guts, and no self respect, unwilling to accept a challenge.

so a W actually suggests poor performance at the F level, and lack of commitment.

1) Not true. A "W" in most schools is decided by the student.

2) As the OP said, he could've withdrawn from the class due to other reasons. It does not mean the student has an F in the class. While some students withdraw due to poor performance, there may be other issues at stake. I'm sure if am employer looks at his college transcript, the OP can explain why he/she dropped the course.

3) I think you're going overboard with the "student with no guts, no self respect" thing... What may interest you may not interest the student at all. It's hard to study for a class where the professor might make it seem boring, or if the topic is dull/dreary.


OP: don't worry... as I said before, 1 or 2 W's won't hurt (in your whole undergraduate career). Just make sure it's not every year.

 

[symbolipoint]

1) Not true. A "W" in most schools is decided by the student.

2) As the OP said, he could've withdrawn from the class due to other reasons. It does not mean the student has an F in the class. While some students withdraw due to poor performance, there may be other issues at stake. I'm sure if am employer looks at his college transcript, the OP can explain why he/she dropped the course.

3) I think you're going overboard with the "student with no guts, no self respect" thing... What may interest you may not interest the student at all. It's hard to study for a class where the professor might make it seem boring, or if the topic is dull/dreary.


OP: don't worry... as I said before, 1 or 2 W's won't hurt (in your whole undergraduate career). Just make sure it's not every year.

Mathwonk was expressing a strong general trend based on his experience as a professor of Mathematics in college/university. Viewpoints on W's vary depending on any particular region community and particular levels of courses. Sometimes, students take too many courses in a semester and one or two of those courses aren't well learned; other times, a student may be weak in pre-requisite course topics and a current course is not well learned; still other times, a student may just naturally be weaker in a certain subject or sort of course of a certain subject.

 

[Defennder]

If you ask me, I'll prefer a W for a course if I'm confident of getting at least a B on the retake, rather than an F followed by a B on next retake.

EDIT: I just reread the first post and it seems as though the discussion has side-tracked somewhat. We're suppposed to be comparing W and Cs, not W and F.

But in any case, I think it depends on whether or not your college allows to retake a course if you didn't fail it (ie. got a C) and whether the new grade would replace the old one, as well as whether a newer and better grade can replace a W.

 

[daveyinaz]

Some of the post on here are ridiculous. A 'W' don't mean a damn thing. You withdrew the class...how is anyone going to know the grade you were getting anyways? Unless your school does the whole WF thing...but still in any case...did anyone care about whether Bill Gates had a 'W' on his transcript and he's probably got more money than all of the people that have posted on this board combined? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[cristo]

Some of the post on here are ridiculous. A 'W' don't mean a damn thing. You withdrew the class...how is anyone going to know the grade you were getting anyways?

But that's precisely the point. If you see that a student has withdrawn from a class, would you immediately think "oh, he was going to get an A anyway" or would your first thought be "he dropped out because he was going to fail"? I know what my reaction would be!

Unless your school does the whole WF thing...but still in any case...did anyone care about whether Bill Gates had a 'W' on his transcript and he's probably got more money than all of the people that have posted on this board combined? Yeah, that's what I thought.

That's irrelevant.

 

[scorpa]

If I saw a W on a transcript I would think either (A) The student was going to fail the class and got out rather than risking the fail, or was to lazy to put the work into the class or (B) The student decided the class was not in their best interest to take despite the fact they were doing well in it. I withdrew out of my calculus based physics class despite having a 98% average in the class because I decided my interests laid more in the medical sciences and wanted to focus on the classes that would get me into that program.

One W could mean either of those possibilities, and it is pretty darn hard to judge which it is without meeting the student. Multiple W's on the other hand point to option 1, where the student lacks the dedication to finish a course when it gets difficult.

 

[ice109]

meh on my transcript it will reflect what it is. I'm leaving the program and this class is in that program.

 

[louie3006]

I'd rather Get the C and get the hell out of that course especially if it was Biology oh

 

[symbolipoint]

So many people say they want at least B's or they want to Withdraw. You should not withdraw to avoid a C; withdraw to avoid D's or F's. Withdraw to change your schedule; either within the semester or among semesters. Withdraw if early enough, to change programs or fields.

 

[GatorAbe]

i have been teaching for 30 years at a state school, and have given W's to approximately 40% of all calculus students during that time.

Of those, all but one that I can recall were failing miserably when they took the W.

so that is actually far higher than 99% F's.

QUOTE]

So, let me get this straight, 40% of all your Calculus students ended up with Ws. You must be a hard teacher or it must be a tough subject for kids these days. Makes me feel fortunate that I'm passing 2nd Semester Calc.

Anyway, it looks like I'll be opting for a W in first year Physics this year. Even if I pass, it's be with a C and passing is not at all representive of what I know. I need to learn the material again, the class just moves WAY too fast.

 

[symbolipoint]

The 40% drop-with-W that Mathwonk reports is not surprising. Students will often make a program change for their own reasons or choose to avoid D or F by withdrawing before the deadline. Some of them find the material to be difficult; sometimes because of inadequate preparation, or because of over-extending their chosen program during the semester. The serious students will try again in a following semester. This dropping with W is not limited to just Calculus or mathematics or sciences. Students do this throughout many subject areas. Watch students' attendance habits and you will see it.