Classical Hall effect when current has neutral charge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the classical Hall effect in the context of a current composed of both negative and positive charges flowing through an infinite wire under a homogeneous magnetic field. Participants explore the implications of this scenario on the potential difference across the wire, considering various interpretations of current and charge movement.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that both negative and positive charges experience a Lorentz force in the same direction, leading to a potential difference across the wire similar to the classical Hall effect.
  • Another participant argues that if both charge types are present, they would cancel each other out, resulting in no net current.
  • A different participant counters that while the overall charge may be zero, there can still be a current due to the opposing movements of positive and negative charges.
  • One participant questions the assumption of the wire being infinite, pointing out that this raises issues regarding the existence of ends on the wire.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of "Technician's current" and "Engineer's current," suggesting that the two opposing currents could be perceived differently depending on the observer's perspective.
  • A later reply discusses the classical view of current, noting that while electrons and holes move in opposite directions, this does not negate the existence of a single classical current. The participant emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between positive and negative charge movements in understanding the Hall effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether a potential difference would arise from the described scenario, with no consensus reached on the implications of having both negative and positive charges contributing to the current.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions about the nature of current and charge interactions, as well as the implications of an infinite wire, which may affect the conclusions drawn from the discussion.

Joker93
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If i have a current of both negative and positive charges(i know that there is also current from only negative and only positive charges,i'm not confused) along an infinite wire of square cross-section,and the we put a homogeneous magnetic field normal to the current,then a Lorentz force acts on both the positive and negative charges and it is in the same direction for both of them(negative charges move in the opposite direction of the positive charges so from the equation of the Lorentz force,the negative sign from the negative charge and the negative sign from the velocity vector cancel each other out-considering positive velocity vector in the direction that the positive charges are moving).But because the forces act in the same direction AND because negative and positive charges attract each other,then we will have accumulation of both negative AND positive charges on near the one end of the wire.So,the question is,will there be a potential difference transverse of the wire like the normal classical Hall effect?
 
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Adam Landos said:
If i have a current of both negative and positive charges
Then they will cancel and you will have no current.
 
no,this is not the case.the overall charge will be zero but there will be current.one in one direction and one in another(check it out in books)
 
You're assuming the wire to have an infinite length so how can the wire have ends?
 
seems to me
one amp of 'Technician's current' , negative charge moving left to right
plus
one amp of 'Engineer's current' , positive charge moving right to left
adds to
two amps of either observer's current moving in whichever direction they believe current to flow.

Did i mis-read the question ?
 
The negative “electron” current flows one way, while the positive “hole” current flows the other way.
That is really only one classical “current”, but what is it's magnitude and polarity. {-2, -1, 0, 1 or 2} ?

See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect#Theory My bold.
Wikipedia said:
In the classical view, there are only electrons moving in the same average direction both in the case of electron or hole conductivity. This cannot explain the opposite sign of the Hall effect observed. The difference is that electrons in the upper bound of the valence band have opposite group velocity and wave vector direction when moving, which can be effectively treated as if positively charged particles (holes) moved in the opposite direction to that of the electrons.
Wikipedia said:
One very important feature of the Hall effect is that it differentiates between positive charges moving in one direction and negative charges moving in the opposite. The Hall effect offered the first real proof that electric currents in metals are carried by moving electrons, not by protons. The Hall effect also showed that in some substances (especially p-type semiconductors), it is more appropriate to think of the current as positive "holes" moving rather than negative electrons. A common source of confusion with the Hall Effect is that holes moving to the left are really electrons moving to the right, so one expects the same sign of the Hall coefficient for both electrons and holes. This confusion, however, can only be resolved by modern quantum mechanical theory of transport in solids.[4]
 

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