Classical/quantum transition for an ideal gas in 1m^3 box

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the temperature at which the classical to quantum transition occurs for an ideal gas contained in a 1m³ box. The original poster attempts to compare the de Broglie wavelength of particles with the average distance between them to determine this transition temperature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between the de Broglie wavelength and the average distance between gas particles, with the original poster attempting to derive an expression for temperature based on these concepts. There are questions regarding the mass of air molecules and the calculations involved in determining the transition temperature.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in checking assumptions and correcting calculations related to the mass of air molecules. A correction was made from an initial value of 30 kg/mol to 30 g/mol, which led to a revised temperature estimate. The discussion is ongoing, with no consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

The original poster is working under the constraints of estimating the transition temperature based on standard pressure and the properties of air as an ideal gas. There is an emphasis on ensuring the correct values are used for calculations, particularly regarding molecular mass.

Dixanadu
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Homework Statement


Hey guys,

So I have to estimate the temperature at which the classical / quantum transition happens for a 1m^3 box of air. This is done by comparing the de Broglie wavelength with the average distance between the particles - so basically the transition happens when they are comparable.


Homework Equations


Average distance between the particles: (\frac{V}{N})^{\frac{1}{3}}=n^{-\frac{1}{3}} where n is the number density

de Broglie wavelength: \lambda = \frac{h}{\sqrt{2\pi m k T}} where k is the Boltzmann constant.


The Attempt at a Solution



Right, so here's what I did. Since the volume V = 1, we can say that
N=n, using the distance between the particles equation.

We also know that pV=NkT=nkT since n = N, so assuming standard pressure (since the question asks me to estimate), we can say that n=\frac{10^{5}}{kT}.

The transition happens when \lambda ≈ n^{-\frac{1}{3}}. So replacing λ with our expression for n, we get this
\frac{h}{\sqrt{2\pi m k T}}=(\frac{10^{5}}{kT})^{-\frac{1}{3}}

Using the approximation that the mass m of air is around 30 kg / mol, the mass of one air molecule is around 5 x 10-23kg. Plugging that in and solving for T gives me

T≈5.6\times 10^{-4}K, which seems wrong for some reason..

Can you guys help me out? thanks!
 
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Dixanadu said:
Using the approximation that the mass m of air is around 30 kg / mol, the mass of one air molecule is around 5 x 10-23kg.

kg??
 
is that wrong? i just divided 30 by avogadro's number o.o
 
oh wait i think its 5 x 10^-26 kg...its 30 g/mol not 30kg/mol XD
 
So after that correction i get 0.035 K...is that better?
 

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