Colliding Gas Cloud to form a Star

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the process of star formation, specifically examining a model that describes a collapsing gas cloud using adiabatic and isothermal conditions. Participants explore the implications of using certain parameters in the model and the reliability of AI-generated equations in astrophysics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assignment of initial conditions, particularly the values of temperature (T0) and pressure (p0), suggesting that p0 being almost zero could complicate the model.
  • Another participant advises against relying on AI for developing models, recommending instead to consult published references for more reliable information.
  • Concerns are raised about the similarity of the adiabatic solution to the isothermal case, prompting a discussion on the validity of the model.
  • There is a suggestion that if the equations were generated by AI, the original poster (OP) should reconsider them and rely on their own understanding of the problem.
  • A later reply highlights the potential for AI to produce misleading results, emphasizing the importance of critical evaluation of AI outputs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the reliability of AI-generated models and the appropriateness of the initial conditions used in the star formation model. There is no consensus on the validity of the proposed equations or the best approach to take in modeling the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of AI in complex subjects and the potential for misunderstanding when relying on such tools. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the correct application of physical principles in the context of star formation.

Omega0
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TL;DR
Simple equations to describe the stationary state of a collapsing hydrogen cloud in space
Hello,

I would like to go step by step trough the process of the generation of a star. An AI suggests for a simple model an adiabetic case (an improvement of the isothermal case) with ##\gamma=5/3##:

$$

\begin{align}

T &= T_0 \left(\frac{p}{p_0}\right)^{\gamma-1} \\

P &= \rho \frac{k_B T}{\mu m_H} \\

\frac{dP}{dr} &= -\frac{G M(r) \rho(r)}{r^2} \\

\frac{dM}{dr} &= 4\pi r^2 \rho(r)

\end{align}



$$

The solution looks wrong - identical to the iso-thermal case. I am asking myself how ##T_0## and ##p_0## should be assigned. For the temperature the AI takes 10K, okay... but shouldn't ##p_0## be a problem because it is initially almost 0? Also, the setup with both values determines the final result... isn't this wrong? Is a transient approach needed?

Thanks for your ideas!

##\omega_0##
 
Last edited:
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Omega0 said:
An AI suggests for a simple model an adiabetic case...
Please don't rely on artificial intelligence to develop your model. Find instead a suitable published reference, like a textbook or technical paper.
 
Omega0 said:
TL;DR Summary: Simple equations to describe the stationary state of a collapsing hydrogen cloud in space

Hello,
I would like to go step by step trough the process of the generation of a star. An AI suggests for a simple model an adiabetic case (an improvement of the isothermal case) with ##\gamma=5/3##:
We have moved this thread to the astrophysics section where you're more likely to find prople familiar with the physics of stellar-mass gas clouds.

You will want to be very cautious about accepting "help" from any AI - they are notoriously unreliable on complex subjects, often just reflecting the user's own misconceptions back at them. Thus the excellent advice from @renormalize above, and also the forum rules restricting the use of AI. If the formulas in your post are your own work we can sensibly discuss them here; if they came from the AI it will be best to tear them up and start over from your own understanding of the problem.
 
Last edited:
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Omega0 said:
TL;DR Summary: Simple equations to describe the stationary state of a collapsing hydrogen cloud in space

Hello,

I would like to go step by step trough the process of the generation of a star. An AI suggests for a simple model an adiabetic case (an improvement of the isothermal case) with ##\gamma=5/3##:

$$

\begin{align}

T &= T_0 \left(\frac{p}{p_0}\right)^{\gamma-1} \\

P &= \rho \frac{k_B T}{\mu m_H} \\

\frac{dP}{dr} &= -\frac{G M(r) \rho(r)}{r^2} \\

\frac{dM}{dr} &= 4\pi r^2 \rho(r)

\end{align}



$$

The solution looks wrong - identical to the iso-thermal case.
Nugatory said:
If the formulas in your post are your own work we can sensibly discuss them here; if they came from the AI it will be best to tear them up and start over from your own understanding of the problem.
Another part of the problem is, can the OP usefully critizise and check the AI results?
AI can even hallucinate. Searches cannot hallucinate, but they can quote in wrong context. Then again, so can humans.
 

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