Comparing Planck's Mass, Length, Time and Energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around comparing Planck's mass, length, time, and energy with observable quantities and understanding the implications of these comparisons in the context of quantum gravity and particle physics. The scope includes theoretical considerations and practical implications related to high-energy physics experiments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents calculations for Planck's mass, length, time, and energy, comparing them to familiar quantities such as the mass of E. coli, the radius of a proton, and the energy emitted by the Sun.
  • Another participant calculates the Planck momentum and compares it to the momentum of a pitched baseball, suggesting that such quantities can be observed in everyday contexts.
  • There is a discussion about the energies involved in particle collisions, with one participant noting that the LHC can accelerate protons to about a millionth of the Planck energy, indicating the need for larger accelerators to reach higher energies.
  • One participant acknowledges a correction regarding the energy levels achievable by the LHC, emphasizing the significant difference between current capabilities and the Planck energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the significance of Planck's mass and energy, particularly in relation to observable phenomena. There is no consensus on the implications of these comparisons, and some participants correct or refine earlier statements without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific energy levels and capabilities of the LHC, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the practical implications of reaching Planck-scale energies and the nature of quantum gravity.

George Keeling
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TL;DR
Planck's mass, length, time and energy. I wanted to compare them with actual things. Some don't seem extreme.
Sean Carroll gives the Planck's set of four dimensioned quantities: Planck's mass, length, time and energy. I wanted to compare them with actual things.\begin{align}

m_p=\sqrt{\frac{\hbar c}{G}}&=2.18\times{10}^{-8}\rm{kg}&\rm{{10}^{7}\ E. coli}\phantom {100000000000000000000}&\phantom {10000}(1)\nonumber\\

l_p=\sqrt{\frac{\hbar G}{c^3}}&=1.63\times{10}^{-35}\rm{m}&\rm{Radius\ of\ proton\ ={10}^{-15}\ m}\phantom {10000}&\phantom {10000}(2)\nonumber\\

t_p=\sqrt{\frac{\hbar G}{c^5}}&=5.39\times{10}^{-44}\rm{s}&\rm{Cosmic\ inflation\ ends\ at\ {10}^{-32}s}\phantom {10000}&\phantom {10000}(3)\nonumber\\

E_p=\sqrt{\frac{\hbar c^5}{G}}&=1.95\times{10}^9\rm{J}&\rm{Sun\ emits{\ 10}^{26}\ Js^{-1}. \text{ A-bomb}\rm={10}^{12}}\ J&\phantom {10000}(4)\nonumber\\

&=1.22\times{10}^{19}\rm{GeV}&

&\phantom {10000}\nonumber

\end{align}He then says "Most likely, quantum gravity does not become important until we consider particle masses greater than ##m_p##, or times shorter than ##t_p##, or lengths smaller than ##l_p##, or energies greater than ##E_p##; at lower scales classical GR should suffice. Since these are all far removed from observable phenomena, constructing a consistent theory of quantum gravity is more an issue of principle than of practice."

Whilst it is unimaginable that we will see things shorter than ##t_p## or smaller than ##l_p##, particle masses ('point masses') greater than ##m_p## are commonplace in GR and energies greater than ##E_p## are happening all the time. Can anybody help me make sense of the ##m_p,E_p## parts? And why are those 'greater than' and the others 'less than'?
 
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From your post I calculate "Planck momentum" of M_p c= 6.54 kg m/s which amounts a pitched baseball with 100 miles/hour speed. We can see it in major league game.
 
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He means energies involved in a single particle-particle collision. The LHC can accelerate protons to about a millionth of the Planck energy (if memory serves) (edit:) of a Joule, so we're going to need a bigger accelerator.
 
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mitochan said:
From your post I calculate "Planck momentum" of M_p c= 6.54 kg m/s which amounts a pitched baseball with 100 miles/hour speed. We can see it in major league game.
Much better than collecting 10 million bacteria!
 
Ibix said:
The LHC can accelerate protons to about a millionth of the Planck energy (if memory serves), so we're going to need a bigger accelerator
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider say "After upgrades it reached 6.5 TeV per beam 13 TeV (= ##1.3\times 10^4## GeV) total collision energy," so that's ##10^{15}## times bigger!
 
Correct - my memory was faulty. It's one millionth of a Joule they can reach (source). So we're going to need an even bigger accelerator.
 

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