Conservation of ang. momentum using Euler-Lag. Eqns (help ;-)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a statement related to the conservation of angular momentum using the Euler-Lagrange equations in a system described by spherical coordinates. The original poster is attempting to show that the angle \(\theta\) remains constant at \(\pi/2\) for all times given specific initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster discusses their approach to deriving equations from the Lagrangian and expresses uncertainty about integrating the resulting expressions. They also mention the geometrical interpretation of the motion being confined to a plane.
  • Some participants question the validity of the statement being proved, suggesting that it may not hold for all potential energy functions.
  • Another participant suggests that substituting \(\theta(t) = \pi/2\) into the derived equation could demonstrate that \(\theta\) must be constant.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different interpretations of the problem and questioning the assumptions made regarding the potential energy. Some guidance has been offered regarding the implications of substituting specific values into the equations, but no consensus has been reached on the validity of the original statement.

Contextual Notes

The original poster's approach relies on specific initial conditions and the form of the potential energy, which has been confirmed to be dependent on the radial coordinate \(r\). There is an indication that the problem may have constraints that affect the applicability of the proof.

T-7
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Hi,

I'm stuck on what I suspect is a really easy proof. I'd appreciate some rapid help!

Homework Statement



For a trajectory with given initial position and velocity, we can always rotate the system of coordinates such that initially d\theta / dt = 0 and \theta= \pi/2 say, t = 0.

Using the Euler-Lagrange equations, show that \theta remains at \pi/2 for all times t.

The Attempt at a Solution



Having obtained the Lagrangian (L=mv^2/2 + U, rewriting v as \dot{r}^{2}+r^{2}(\dot{\phi}^{2}sin^{2}\theta + \dot{\theta}^{2}) in spherical coordinates, and taken partial derivatives with respect to \dot{\theta} and \theta, and \phi and \dot{\phi}, I have found the following relations (I think they're correct?)

d/dt [mr^2\dot{\theta}] = mr^2\dot{\phi^2}cos(\theta)sin(\theta)

d/dt [mr^{2} \dot{\phi} sin^{2} (\theta)] = 0

(There is a third expression, from the partial derivatives wrt. r and \dot{r}, but I doubt it's relevant here.)

I'd be tempted to integrate both sides of the first to get an expression for \dot{\theta}, but that's where I become unstuck just now... I'm not sure how to integrate the RHS with respect to time, given what I know about the components. But presumably integration is going to be involved here, or the initial conditions would never come into play (?). I can deduce from the second that mr^{2} \dot{\phi} sin^{2} (\theta) = const = c, and so at t = 0 mr^{2} \dot{\phi} = c, but nothing more of interest seems to be following at the moment...

Incidentally, I take the geometrical meaning to be that the motion is confined to a plane orthogonal to L, ang. momentum is conserved.

Advice gratefully received (as soon as possible!) Many thanks :-)
 
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The statement you are trying to prove is not true for any potencial energy U. Does the problem include something like U=U(r)?
 
Lojzek said:
The statement you are trying to prove is not true for any potencial energy U. Does the problem include something like U=U(r)?

Yep. :-)
 
T-7 said:
d/dt [mr^2\dot{\theta}] = mr^2\dot{\phi^2}cos(\theta)sin(\theta)

If you put theta(t)=pi/2, then the equation is always true. I think this proves that theta must be constant, since a physical system can not have more than one solution.
 

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