Constrained mass point subject to elastic force and weight

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around a mass point constrained to move on a sphere, influenced by gravitational and elastic forces. The user presents their solution, including the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formulations, and describes the constants of motion. Concerns arise regarding the potential energy expression, specifically the term involving (1-cos(θ)) and whether it should include a factor of 1/2. Feedback suggests that while the calculations appear reasonable, further detail on the qualitative movement description is needed, particularly regarding oscillatory behavior and potential simple harmonic motion characteristics. The conversation emphasizes the importance of accurate potential energy representation and the qualitative analysis of the system's dynamics.
Ocirne94
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Hi all, is my solution correct? I was rejected because of this...

Homework Statement


Consider a mass point (mass = m) constrained to move on the surface of a sphere (radius = r). The point is subject to its own weight's force and to the elastic force of a spring (elastic constant = k, rest length = 0) which at the other end is fixed to the sphere's north pole.

Write the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian of the system.
Write the Lagrange's and Hamilton's equations of motion.
Find the constants of motion.
Give a qualitative description of the point's movement

Homework Equations


None given.


The Attempt at a Solution


There are 2 degrees of freedom. I choose spherical coordinates theta and phi [but is this correct? The point can reach the poles, where those coordinates aren't defined anymore].
The kinetic energy is
T = \frac{m}{2}\cdot (r^2 \dot\theta^{2} + r^{2}sin(\theta)^{2}\dot\phi^{2})
The potential energy is
V = \kappa\cdot r^{2} (1-cos\theta) + mgr(1+cos\theta)
The Lagrangian is simply
L = T-V
and, since there isn't any explicit dependence on time, the Hamiltonian is simply
H = T+V, but expressed as a function of the momenta p_\theta and p_\phi. I computed it as p_\theta \cdot \dot\theta + p_\phi \cdot \dot\phi - L

p_\theta = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot\theta}=mr^2\dot\theta
p_\phi = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot\phi}=\dot\phi r^{2} sin(\theta)^{2}m

Then Lagrange's equations are only computations (I hope I haven't mistaken the derivatives), and so are the Hamilton's.

p_\phi is a constant of motion; the total energy (H or E) is, too. There aren't other constants of motion.

Then I have drawn the chart of V and I have used it to trace a qualitative phase portrait, and I have made basic observations on equilibrium points (one, unstable, when the point is at the south pole; one, stable, when it is at the north pole; and a circumference (a parallel) depending on the mass and the elastic constant.

And now?

Thank you in advance
Ocirne
 
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Ocirne94 said:
The potential energy is
V = \kappa\cdot r^{2} (1-cos\theta) + mgr(1+cos\theta)
How do you get (1-cos(θ))? And shouldn't there be a factor 1/2 on that term?
 
I get it from geometry: the spring's square length is

r^2(1-cos\theta)^{2} + (sin\theta^{2})

which becomes

r^2 + r^2cos\theta^2-2r^2cos\theta+r^2sin\theta^2

the 2 gets simplified with the 1/2 of the elastic potential formula.
This (I forgot to say) setting potential=0 at the south pole of the sphere.
 
Last edited:
Ocirne94 said:
I get it from geometry: the spring's square length is

r^2(1-cos\theta)^{2} + (sin\theta^{2})
Ah yes, of course.
Everything else looks reasonable to me. Maybe more is wanted on the qualitative description. In general, it will oscillate above and below a latitude corresponding to a stable horizontal orbit, yes? Might it be SHM, in terms of a suitable function of time?
 
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