Cosmic Bell Test: 600 yr Old "Freedom of Choice" Loophole

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a recent experimental test of Bell's inequality that utilizes distant astronomical sources to address the "freedom of choice" loophole in quantum mechanics. Participants explore the concept of superdeterminism and its experimental implications, as well as the philosophical ramifications of the findings.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that the experiment uses light from distant stars as "cosmic setting generators" to select measurement settings in a Bell test, potentially addressing the freedom of choice loophole.
  • Others argue that while the experiment may push back the plausibility of certain superdeterministic theories, it does not rule out superdeterminism in general.
  • There is a contention regarding whether only local superdeterministic theories are ruled out, with some asserting that the experiment does not eliminate the possibility of local superdeterministic influences from over 600 years ago.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the experiment on the concept of "Last Thursdayism" and other philosophical loopholes, suggesting that some interpretations of the findings may still leave room for skepticism about determinism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the implications of the experiment on superdeterminism, with some asserting that it establishes new bounds on plausibility while others maintain that it does not rule out all forms of superdeterminism. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the interpretation of the results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the overlap of the past light cone of distant stars and the experimental apparatus could allow for deterministic influences, raising questions about the assumptions underlying the experiment's conclusions.

DrChinese
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You got to love this! A top experimental team was assembled to test the "freedom of choice" loophole (if you can call it that). Usually, when random settings are needed in a Bell test, a computer generated value is obtained (pseudo random), or similar. This is relatively "local", and subject to the assertion that something is preventing free choice of settings for the Bell test. In this clever version, light from distant stars is used as an input to select setting values. Then a Bell test is performed. Check it out:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.06985

Bell's theorem states that some predictions of quantum mechanics cannot be reproduced by a local-realist theory. That conflict is expressed by Bell's inequality, which is usually derived under the assumption that there are no statistical correlations between the choices of measurement settings and anything else that can causally affect the measurement outcomes. In previous experiments, this "freedom of choice" was addressed by ensuring that selection of measurement settings via conventional "quantum random number generators" (QRNGs) was space-like separated from the entangled particle creation. This, however, left open the possibility that an unknown cause affected both the setting choices and measurement outcomes as recently as mere microseconds before each experimental trial. Here we report on a new experimental test of Bell's inequality that, for the first time, uses distant astronomical sources as "cosmic setting generators." In our tests with polarization-entangled photons, measurement settings were chosen using real-time observations of Milky Way stars while simultaneously ensuring locality. We observe statistically significant ≳11.7σ and ≳13.8σ violations of Bell's inequality with estimated p-values of ≲7.4×10−32 and ≲1.1×10−43, respectively, thereby pushing back by ∼600 years the most recent time by which any local-realist influences could have engineered the observed Bell violation.
 
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Interesting! Today I was explaining to my friends how superdeterminism is something you can't experimentally rule out. Turns out you can! Kudos to experimentalists.
 
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ShayanJ said:
Today I was explaining to my friends how superdeterminism is something you can't experimentally rule out. Turns out you can!
No you can't. At best, you can rule out some special types of superdeterminism, but not superdeterminism in general. In this case, possible superdeterminism is pushed back 600 years ago.
 
Demystifier said:
No you can't. At best, you can rule out some special types of superdeterminism, but not superdeterminism in general.
Yeah, strictly speaking, only local superdeterministic theories are ruled out. But the whole point of superdeterminism was to preserve both locality and classical reality.
 
ShayanJ said:
Turns out you can!
Nope... All this experiment can do is establish a new upper bound on its plausibility.
only local superdeterministic theories are ruled out
Not by this experiment. The past light cone of the distant stars and the experimental apparatus still overlap, so the correlation could be the deterministic result of events in that area of overlap. Of course, that requires the implausible hypothesis that some random atomic collision millennia ago has completely determined the emission of the light that reaches the experimenter from a far-distant star and also the exact behavior of the device creating the entangled pairs... So we have a new upper bound on the plausibility.
 
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ShayanJ said:
only local superdeterministic theories are ruled out
No they are not. According to this experiment, local superdeterministioc causes that happened more than 600 years ago are not ruled out.
 
Demystifier said:
No they are not. According to this experiment, local superdeterministioc causes that happened more than 600 years ago are not ruled out.
So I misinterpreted that 600 years!
Thanks for the clarification.
 
It also leaves open the "Last Thursdayism" loophole. :smile: In case anyone is disappointed that Bell test loopholes are being tightened or closed.
 
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DrChinese said:
It also leaves open the "Last Thursdayism" loophole.
Or my favored one: the-world-is-local-but-we-are-too-stupid-to-understand-how loophole.
 
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