Cross product and matrix multiplication

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the cross product of vectors when transformed by an orthogonal matrix. Participants explore whether the equation (M a) × (M b) = M c holds true under certain conditions, particularly focusing on the implications of the matrix's determinant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the transformation of vectors by an orthogonal matrix M should preserve the cross product relationship, suggesting that the equation (M a) × (M b) = M c is valid.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of the determinant being 1 to maintain orientation and adhere to the right-hand rule, indicating that without this condition, the relationship may not hold.
  • A third participant suggests that the proof can be established by distributing the cross product and utilizing the orthonormality of the columns of M, but questions whether the determinant condition is necessary.
  • A later reply asserts that the determinant condition is indeed necessary, as a determinant of -1 would change the orientation and invalidate the proposed relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the determinant being 1 for the relationship to hold, indicating that there is no consensus on this point. Some agree on the importance of orientation, while others question the necessity of the determinant condition.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the determinant of the orthogonal matrix and the implications of orientation in vector transformations, but does not resolve whether the determinant condition is universally necessary.

haael
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Suppose that we have a cross-product of vectors.

a × b = c

Now suppose that we have an orthogonal matrix M. Is it true that

(M a) × (M b) = M c

?

My intuition is that here we are moving to another coordinate system and performing a cross product in this new system. I can't find an answer in google, so I'm posting here.
 
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Give it determinant 1, otherwise it will reverse orientation and screw up your right-hand rule. Then, it works. The transformation will preserve the norms of the vectors, and it will also map orthogonal vectors to orthogonal vectors. So, far that leaves only two possibilities when you take the cross product. Which is why you make it have determinant one. Then, the right hand rule is taken care of.
 
It looks like proof goes through if you check (M_1a_1+...)x(M_1b_1+...), distribute (like FOIL) and use orthonormality of columns of M. I didnt check if the determinant = 1 condition mentioned above is necessary.
 
Last edited:
algebrat said:
I didnt check if the determinant = 1 condition mentioned above is necessary.

It should be necessary. If the determinant is -1, then it is false since orientation is changed.
 

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