Curious does anyone play the piano

[elabed haidar]

hey I am just curious does anyone play the pina i really have a few questions ??thank you

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Sorry, piano is not my forte.

 

[mishrashubham]

hey I am just curious does anyone play the pina i really have a few questions ??thank you

Currently in my second year of training. I can decently play a few classical pieces. I love ragtime as well (especially maple leaf rag and black and white rag) but at the moment it's a bit too tough for me.

 

[Char. Limit]

Sorry, piano is not my forte.

Clever.

 

[mishrashubham]

BTW, that got me thinking; Why don't we have a music section in PF, considering that we have a subforum for every other subject on the planet (well almost).

 

[Hurkyl]

BTW, that got me thinking; Why don't we have a music section in PF, considering that we have a subforum for every other subject on the planet (well almost).

Because we don't get large numbers of questions related to the physics of music, nor any questions at all about music theory.

 

[chaoseverlasting]

If we had a music theory forum, I think I'd be hanging out there all day long :p

 

[Ms Music]

If we had a music theory forum, I think I'd be hanging out there all day long :p

Ahhhhhh, ditto.

To elabed haidar, there are plenty of pianists here, myself included. Ask your questions and maybe we can help you.

 

[JaredJames]

I play, got to grade 7 (of 8) before university got in the way.

 

[russ_watters]

I played for four years in middle school/junior high.

I'm terrible.

 

[elabed haidar]

thank you all it means a lot so i dream of palying the elton john songs and i have in fron t of me but its like it needs three hands hopw do i play it ??

 

[elabed haidar]

also james blunt and still same problem

 

[Hurkyl]

Reminds me of this video:

 

[JaredJames]

It's not three hands, the bottom two lines are piano and the top is vocal. You don't play the top one.

 

[elabed haidar]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh okay now i get it thanks jared james so what do i do with vocal its just written for what??

 

[JaredJames]

You don't do anything, unless you plan singing as well.

Vocal = voice part. Sometimes they put the words under it as well.

EDIT: You could also get another instrument to play it.

 

[elabed haidar]

so if i want to sing and play should i play the three parts?? that's hard
but if i just want to play the piano i play the second and third line
what aout you james what do you like to play on the piano?

 

[mishrashubham]

so if i want to sing and play should i play the three parts?? that's hard

No, you sing only the top staff.

but if i just want to play the piano i play the second and third line

Yes that's right.

 

[elabed haidar]

wowwwwwwww so what about what would you like to play on the piano?

 

[mishrashubham]

wowwwwwwww so what about what would you like to play on the piano?

Well I would surely like to play almost everything, but unfortunately I can't. I am practicing different styles, such as classical, ragtime and jazz but it will take quite some time before I can manage to play something.

 

[elabed haidar]

is the difference huge between these styles??
but are you sure about singing and playing so when elton john sings and plays he just plays the first line I am a bit confused can you please elaborate and thank you a lot mishrashubham

 

[mishrashubham]

is the difference huge between these styles??
but are you sure about singing and playing so when elton john sings and plays he just plays the first line I am a bit confused can you please elaborate and thank you a lot mishrashubham

Take this for an example. This is from my ragtime finger exercise book.

 

[Jack21222]

While we're talking about piano theory, maybe you pianists can answer a question.

What style of piano would you call the upbeat sections of this song by Tim Minchin:



It's a 10 minute video, with a 3 or so minute piano solo in the middle. It's a comedy song, where he alternates slow and fast parts. I find the fast parts incredibly catchy, and I'd be interested in hearing more "serious" piano songs in a similar style.

 

[JaredJames]

is the difference huge between these styles??
but are you sure about singing and playing so when elton john sings and plays he just plays the first line I am a bit confused can you please elaborate and thank you a lot mishrashubham

I assure you, Elton John isn't playing the first part (although you can't rule out artistic 'live' flourishes).

I have played a number of his pieces and he plays the lower two lines.

The top part is the melody - the bit sung.

It's no good you arguing this, it's standard music notation. Just accept it.

If you don't intend having someone singing or another instrument for the melody, you don't need the three staff version. Because you're only playing the lower lines, you may not here the melody.

All of those songs come in what is called a 'piano version'. Where there are only two staffs and the melody is within them.

 

[elabed haidar]

so ill start practicing the two lower parts and hopefully i will get it

 

[elabed haidar]

jck you right it is nice especially the fast part

 

[JaredJames]

so ill start practicing the two lower parts and hopefully i will get it

I'd still recommend you get the piano only version.

 

[elabed haidar]

how do you know where ( free ofcourse) lol

 

[elabed haidar]

so i can't play on the piano the vocal version?? that sucks it took me a week to get those

 

[JaredJames]

Not free, they aren't free works. You could possibly get people's own versions.

I use www.sheetmusicdirect.com which has a whole variety from easy piano, solo piano and the full piece with all parts.

You have to pay and need to install Sibelius Scorch (free) to view and listen to the music pieces before buying.

 

[JaredJames]

so i can't play on the piano the vocal version?? that sucks it took me a week to get those

They're the wrong parts. You've bought the ones made for piano plus vocals (or other instrument).

You want the solo piano version. This version will have the melody within the two lines for you.

Here is a search for an EJ song: http://www.sheetmusicdirect.com/Search/gsearch.aspx?searchtext=elton john your song

As you can see, there are many different versions. The type you have is Piano, Vocal & Guitar but you need is Piano Solo.

 

[elabed haidar]

thanks for your help but i think i just found it by luck the piano version its only two lines right thank you man very much but i think i will stick to mozart and his friends thanks

 

[mishrashubham]

...Mozart and his friends...

Give them some respect, please.

 

[elabed haidar]

dont get me wrong i really love them don't think of it as an insult id never insult these gifted people

 

[mishrashubham]

dont get me wrong i really love them don't think of it as an insult id never insult these gifted people

That's fine then.

 

[elabed haidar]

i really want to thank you i will never be alone because its nice to talk about your talent with talented people thank you alot

 

[mishrashubham]

i really want to thank you i will never be alone because its nice to talk about your talent with talented people thank you alot

ME? Talented? That's the biggest joke on the planet.

 

[elabed haidar]

okay okay not only talented people but also people who admire the greatness in piano

 

[Ms Music]

so if i want to sing and play should i play the three parts?? that's hard
but if i just want to play the piano i play the second and third line

Elabed, something else you could try. :) In my opinion, Elton John's piano music is nothing more than "flowery" chord charts. This is a concept I did not learn until college. When I was young, I only played classical music, and it was played note for note exactly as it was on the sheet music. When I got into college, I took a music performance class and learned how to play rock and roll. It was a very foreign concept to me, but it was easy to figure out with all my years of playing. Look at guitar tabs, and see if you can figure it out just from the chord name. If not, I can offer assistance, either through this thread (in case anyone else is interested), or PM. It is very basic music theory.

I do prefer to stick with Mozart and his friends, but it is nice to know that I now CAN play Elton John if I wish. And I don't need sheet music to follow. :D

 

[JaredJames]

In my opinion, Elton John's piano music is nothing more than "flowery" chord charts.

Pardon? The piano notation certainly isn't just a set of chord charts.

 

[Ms Music]

Sure it is. You wouldn't be playing note for note what Elton John did in the studio version, but he doesn't play it exactly that way in his live performances either. You have freedom to play what you want, as long as it fits within the chord structure. Here is a brief example: (two measures only due to lack of time)

D minor (two counts, F Major two counts, G Major 4 counts. C Major two counts, E minor 2 counts, F Major 4 counts.

Can you pick the song out? I have been singing that song since I read this thread. :D He doesn't play those CHORDS, but what he plays fits within the chord sequence. And I doubt that is the right key... but that isn't the point I am trying to show you.

You will not be playing Elton John note for note, but it is an interesting concept to learn, and gives you a lot of freedom for your own interpretation. I think this is how studio musicians play?

Does this help?
I am willing to go more into depth if you want, but I just got a HUGE pile of work dumped on my desk. *scowl*

 

[JaredJames]

Hence my comment regarding artistic flourishes et al.

However, I don't see how any of the above makes it "flowery chord charts". If what you meant by that is what is above, my interpretation of it didn't fit with what you have put. In which case it's a non-issue.

 

[Ms Music]

Hence my comment regarding artistic flourishes et al.

However, I don't see how any of the above makes it "flowery chord charts". If what you meant by that is what is above, my interpretation of it didn't fit with what you have put. In which case it's a non-issue.

I guess it IS a non issue! :D I didn't see your comment about "artistic flourishes", all I saw was

Pardon? The piano notation certainly isn't just a set of chord charts.

which led me to believe you didn't understand "chord charts." Elton John is easiest to play (in my own opinion) by using chord charts. If you are familiar with his music, it is easy to imitate his "artistic flourishes." (what I called "flowery") Unless you WANT to play it note for note like he does in studio, then you want the notation. But it sounded like the original poster was having a tough time finding good sheet music. You can find basic guitar tabs online, which aren't much different than a chord chart. Then pretend you are Elton John, and voila!

If the original poster is talented enough to play Elton John, (and it sounds like you have also) then that person (and you) would probably be able to figure out how to play Elton John's music by using chord charts. It just requires some thinking outside of the box, as you don't have sheet music in front of you. It was extremely awkward for me to learn in college, even if you looked at what classical music I was able to play all ready.

On the other hand, trying to play Mozart from a chord chart, I just may have to have some words with you! *giggle* *wink*

 

[elabed haidar]

guys guys i agree with both of you hear elton john sings and plays music you don't hear it everyday but also even if you get the piano sheets its still not the same play you will get if you play it by yourself that is why this post is asked from the first place but thank you both for this interesting discussion

 

[Ken Natton]

It is interesting Jared that you seem to have taken such exception to Ms Music’s characterisation of Elton John’s playing style as ‘ “flowery” chord charts.’ If by that, she meant some denigration of Elton John’s musical abilities then I could not agree, but as a key insight into the easy way to learn how to play Elton John’s music, she is dead right. And, in point of fact that applies not just to Elton John’s music, but to a good proportion of popular songs, for that matter. It is helpful to understand that many such songs are written at the guitar rather than the piano. But even those written at the piano, like Elton John’s, are really just based around chord sequences. And I am often astonished by just how simple those chord sequences are. I don’t know how many hugely popular songs are based nearly exclusively around the tonic, sub-dominant and dominant chords.

And that takes the insight to a further level. Once you have learned the basic business of playing the twelve major and twelve minor triads in root position and first inversion, perhaps adding the extra spice of seventh chords, then the really important thing is to learn to understand chord relationships. Then it becomes dead easy, not only to learn to play the songs of others easily, but even to make up songs of your own. One more key technique to learn, much used in popular songs, is something called a suspension. In any case, I’m trying to demonstrate how simple all of this is. You’ll have to take my word for it that if it is demonstrated to you at the piano, it really is quite an easy technique to master.

Now, as I say, I mean no denigration at all of Elton John’s abilities. He was, famously, classically trained and it does show. He sits in front of a piano keyboard and produces wonderful sounds from it like it is an extension of himself. If anyone is expecting to have that kind of ability after only five minutes practice, then they are heading for a disappointment. But Elton John himself admits that it sometimes takes him but a few minutes to write a song. Good as he is, that does have to tell you that he is employing some simple techniques to do so.

 

[JaredJames]

It is interesting Jared that you seem to have taken such exception to Ms Music’s characterisation of Elton John’s playing style as ‘ “flowery” chord charts.’ If by that, she meant some denigration of Elton John’s musical abilities then I could not agree,

Not really interesting, because this is exactly how I took it. To me it read as an attack at his music, but now she's explained what she meant I get it. An interpretation issue which like I said, is a non-issue now.

What she is describing is playing by ear. I do it often when I like a song I don't have the music to, generally without the chord chart though.

 

[Ms Music]

What she is describing is playing by ear.

But it ISN'T playing by ear. That is the point. I can write a song, create a chord chart, and make 4 copies. One for the guitar, bass, drummer, and keyboard. If they understand chord charts (which studio musicians should be able to do), they should be able to play along (without ever hearing the song) with the singer (that knows the lyrics and melody of the song) and it should work out fine. Without the studio musicians ever hearing the song.

Ever play 12 bar blues? Or listen to a group have a jazz jam? It is more like that. You are just playing within set parameters. As long as everyone in the group follows that set of parameters, they all have a certain amount of freedom in interpretation.

The only thing that would be played by ear, is copying Elton John's style.

 

[turbo]

But it ISN'T playing by ear. That is the point. I can write a song, create a chord chart, and make 4 copies. One for the guitar, bass, drummer, and keyboard. If they understand chord charts (which studio musicians should be able to do), they should be able to play along (without ever hearing the song) with the singer (that knows the lyrics and melody of the song) and it should work out fine. Without the studio musicians ever hearing the song.

Ever play 12 bar blues? Or listen to a group have a jazz jam? It is more like that. You are just playing within set parameters. As long as everyone in the group follows that set of parameters, they all have a certain amount of freedom in interpretation.

The only thing that would be played by ear, is copying Elton John's style.

For years, I hosted an open-mic jam at local taverns. People would drop in and play their favorite stuff, whether it be blues, jazz, rock, pop, and we "regulars" would back them. For me, the key to this flexibility was knowing barre chords, so I could transpose by ear. We had a keyboardist that would show up when his work schedule permitted, and his keyboard allowed him to transpose, much as my barre chords did, so we generally sounded pretty good, with some nice flourishes and signature touches and very few "clams". That was a very pleasurable job. When we had an excess of guitarists/vocalists, I'd often jump behind my Fibes drum kit and be the percussionist for a while.

I supplied the sound system and drums and sang and played guitar, so the tavern owners paid me, and I used the money to supplement my income and maintain the equipment. The other people just showed up and played for the fun of it. Every once in a while a bunch of jazz aficionados from a local music school would show up and really mix things up. There was a group of students that were into some real avante-garde stuff and when they dropped in, I'd just give them the stage for as long as they wanted, or until other musicians got antsy and wanted to get back up there.

 

[JaredJames]

But it ISN'T playing by ear. That is the point. I can write a song, create a chord chart, and make 4 copies. One for the guitar, bass, drummer, and keyboard. If they understand chord charts (which studio musicians should be able to do), they should be able to play along (without ever hearing the song) with the singer (that knows the lyrics and melody of the song) and it should work out fine. Without the studio musicians ever hearing the song.

Playing by ear is listening to a piece and then playing it.

I understand what you have described above (give someone the chords for a piece and they can play along to someone with the melody).

However, it is impossible for you to play an Elton John (or any) piece - the melody/accompaniment piano part - without hearing it first. How would you know you're playing it? How would you know what to play?

So it's one or the other. You are either just playing the chords along to the melody, or you are trying to improvise the melody - the latter requiring a prior hearing of said melody.

I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here. To improvise an Elton John song (or any) is to play by ear.

 

[Ms Music]

I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here.

This was the whole purpose of my posting in this thread:

thank you all it means a lot so i dream of palying the elton john songs and i have in fron t of me but its like it needs three hands hopw do i play it ??

Ken Natton supported my position also. Need I say more?

Turbo-I knew you had been in music, but didn't know in what way. That is very cool! Thanks for sharing.