Derivation of ideal gas law by Hamiltonian mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the statistical mechanics derivation of the ideal gas law, specifically examining the equations and concepts presented in the Wikipedia article. Participants are exploring the mathematical and physical interpretations of various terms and equations related to the derivation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the dimensionality of the term \(\langle \mathbf{q} \cdot \mathbf{F} \rangle\), suggesting it should represent energy rather than momentum.
  • Another participant agrees with the first claim and suggests that the term should be interpreted as the time average kinetic energy of the particle.
  • There is confusion regarding the equation \(-\langle \sum_{i=1}^{N}\mathbf{q}_k \cdot \mathbf{F}_k \rangle = P \oint_{\mathrm{surface}} \mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}\), particularly about the meaning of \(\mathbf{q}\) and its relation to the vector area element \(d\mathbf{S}\).
  • One participant attempts to clarify that \(\mathbf{q}\) and \(\mathbf{F}\) arise from approximating a discrete model with a continuous one, proposing a more detailed derivation involving integrals.
  • Another participant challenges the dimensional correctness of the proposed integral, stating it does not seem dimensionally valid.
  • A later post introduces the equipartition theorem and its limitations, noting that it applies specifically to quadratic forms of canonical variables, such as in harmonic oscillators.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of specific terms and equations, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the dimensionality and physical meaning of certain expressions.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the derivations, the definitions of terms used, and the dimensional analysis of the equations presented.

Hausdorff
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Hi!

I am trying to understand the statistical mechanics derivation of the ideal gas law shown at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law inder "Derivations".

First of all, the statement "Then the time average momentum of the particle is:
\langle \mathbf{q} \cdot \mathbf{F} \rangle= ... =-3k_BT.". Isn't this wrong? For sure, the dimension of \langle \mathbf{q} \cdot \mathbf{F} is energy, as is the dimension of -3k_BT and not momentum.

Secondly, I do not understand the equation
-\langle \sum_{i=1}^{N}\mathbf{q}_k \cdot \mathbf{F}_k \rangle = P \oint_{\mathrm{surface}} \mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}.
I dot not understand what \mathbf{q} is, since all position vectors have been subsricpted. Nor do I understand the physical interpretation of \mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}: the scalar product of \mathbf{q} (a position vector?) and the vector area element.

If anybody could shed some light on this, I would be very grateful.
 
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Hausdorff said:
Hi!

I am trying to understand the statistical mechanics derivation of the ideal gas law shown at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law inder "Derivations".

First of all, the statement "Then the time average momentum of the particle is:
\langle \mathbf{q} \cdot \mathbf{F} \rangle= ... =-3k_BT.". Isn't this wrong? For sure, the dimension of \langle \mathbf{q} \cdot \mathbf{F} is energy, as is the dimension of -3k_BT and not momentum.
I agree with you there. It should be "time average kinetic energy of the particle". You should post a talk comment in the Wikipedia article.

Secondly, I do not understand the equation
-\langle \sum_{i=1}^{N}\mathbf{q}_k \cdot \mathbf{F}_k \rangle = P \oint_{\mathrm{surface}} \mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}.
I dot not understand what \mathbf{q} is, since all position vectors have been subsricpted. Nor do I understand the physical interpretation of \mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}: the scalar product of \mathbf{q} (a position vector?) and the vector area element.

If anybody could shed some light on this, I would be very grateful.
Pressure is the average force/unit area of the gas. So the time average of the force created by a single particle on the container is F = PΔS where ΔS is the area of the container wall that is interacting with the particle (ie. in a collision between the particle and the wall). So \oint PdS is the total force on all the particles of the gas.

Where it gets a little unclear is setting the total energy to P∫qds. This does not explain the physics. A better explanation can be found on the Wikipedia page on Kinetic theory.

AM
 
Thank you for your reply!

I have been discussing this on another forum as well. There it was explained to me that q and F arise from approximation of the discrete model with a continuous one, so that the derivation with additional steps, would look something like
-\langle \sum_{k=1}^{N} \mathbf{q}_k \cdot \mathbf{F}_k \rangle \approx \int_{\mathrm{volume}}\mathbf{q}\cdot \mathbf{F}dV=<br /> \oint_{\mathrm{surface}}\mathbf{q}\cdot (Pd\mathbf{S})=P\oint_{\mathrm{surface}}\mathbf{q} \cdot d\mathbf{S}...,
where the second is valid to due F vanishing everywhere except for at the surface.

I have looked at the more intuitive derivation on the wiki page on kinetic theory. However, I wanted to understand the more rigorous statistical mechanics proof as well.
 
Hausdorff said:
There it was explained to me that q and F arise from approximation of the discrete model with a continuous one, so that the derivation with additional steps, would look something like
-\langle \sum_{k=1}^{N} \mathbf{q}_k \cdot \mathbf{F}_k \rangle \approx \int_{\mathrm{volume}}\mathbf{q}\cdot \mathbf{F}dV,
I don't follow this. It does not appear to be dimensionally correct. This has dimensions of Force x distance x volume.

AM
 
This is somewhat misleading since the equipartition theorem holds only true for quadratic forms of the canonical variables, i.e., for the harmonic oscillator. The classical grand-canonical partition function is given by
Z=\sum_{N=0}^{\infty} \exp(\alpha N) \frac{z^N}{N!} = \exp(z \exp \alpha),
with the single-particle partion function
z=\int \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{p} \exp \left [-\beta \left (\frac{\vec{p}^2}{2m}+\frac{\omega^2}{2} \vec{x}^2 \right ) \right ]=\frac{8 \pi m^{3/2}}{\beta^3 \omega^3}.
Then you get
\langle N \rangle=\frac{\partial \ln Z}{\partial \alpha}=\frac{8 \pi^3 m^{3/2} \exp \alpha}{\beta^3 \omega^3}
and
\langle H \rangle = -\frac{\partial \ln Z}{\partial \beta} = 3 \frac{\langle N \rangle}{\beta}.
As you see only in a harmonic oscillator potential you get the mean energy in the form given in Wikipedia.
 

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