Derivation of non decaying mode in cosmology

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the result for the metric perturbation \(\phi_k\) in cosmology, specifically \(\phi_k = -C_1(k) \frac{\dot{H}}{H^2}\). Participants explore the integration of the scale factor \(a(t)\) into \(\phi_k\) and discuss the use of integration by parts to simplify the expression. A key technique involves rewriting \(dt\) in terms of \(da\) using the relationship \(H = \dot{a}/a\), which leads to a series of integrations yielding a manageable form. The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing small terms in the context of cosmological perturbations. Overall, the collaborative effort emphasizes the complexity of the derivation and the necessity of careful manipulation of mathematical expressions.
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Homework Statement


Derive the following result : \phi_k=-C_1(k)\frac{\dot{H}(t)}{H(t)}.

Homework Equations



\phi_k=C_1(k)\Bigg(1-\frac{H}{a}\int\limits^{t}a(t)dt\Bigg)

a(t)= a(t_i)\exp\Bigg(H_i(t-t_i)+\dot{H}_i\frac{(t^2-t_i^2)}{2}\Bigg)

The Attempt at a Solution


So I stuck a(t) into \phi_k and then expanded the exponential and integrated. Just ended up with a mess really.
 
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I assume that ##\phi## is the metric perturbation and that you mean
$$ \phi_k = - C_1(k) \frac{\dot{H}}{H^{2}}.$$
Note the ##H^2## in the denominator.

If so, there is kind of a bizarre trick to use here. First, the fact that ##H = \dot{a}/a##, implies that
$$ a dt =H^{-1} da .~~~(*)$$
The idea then is to integrate by parts to show that
$$ \int a dt = \int H^{-1} da = H^{-1} a- \int a~ d \left( H^{-1} \right).$$
It seems weird, but this is formally ok to do. Now, we want to write
$$ d \left( H^{-1} \right) = \frac{ d \left( H^{-1} \right)}{dt} dt $$
and use (*) again to write the ##dt## integral as one over ##da##. Then it's one more integration by parts to get the term you want, plus another integral that you can see is small for ## \dot{H} \ll H^2##.

I had to give a lot of the problem away to explain the trick, but it's probably confusing enough that you still have a lot of work to do for it. I'll try to help with followup questions as needed.
 
fzero said:
I assume that ##\phi## is the metric perturbation and that you mean
$$ \phi_k = - C_1(k) \frac{\dot{H}}{H^{2}}.$$
Note the ##H^2## in the denominator.

If so, there is kind of a bizarre trick to use here. First, the fact that ##H = \dot{a}/a##, implies that
$$ a dt =H^{-1} da .~~~(*)$$
The idea then is to integrate by parts to show that
$$ \int a dt = \int H^{-1} da = H^{-1} a- \int a~ d \left( H^{-1} \right).$$
It seems weird, but this is formally ok to do. Now, we want to write
$$ d \left( H^{-1} \right) = \frac{ d \left( H^{-1} \right)}{dt} dt $$
and use (*) again to write the ##dt## integral as one over ##da##. Then it's one more integration by parts to get the term you want, plus another integral that you can see is small for ## \dot{H} \ll H^2##.

I had to give a lot of the problem away to explain the trick, but it's probably confusing enough that you still have a lot of work to do for it. I'll try to help with followup questions as needed.
Hey,

Thank you so much for the help but to solve the problem I have to put a(t) into \phi_k or have I missed something? I know that at some point I need to do an expansion in \frac{\dot{H_i}}{H^2_i}So following what you have said I have d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}

and dt=\frac{H^{-1}}{a}da\longrightarrow d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\frac{da}{a} which looks hideous. Do I then stick this into the second term on the RHS of the integral? and then integrate by parts?
 
Last edited:
smallgirl said:
Hey,

Thank you so much for the help but to solve the problem I have to put a(t) into \phi_k or have I missed something? I know that at some point I need to do an expansion in \frac{\dot{H_i}}{H^2_i}

With this method of doing the problem, we don't need to know anything special about ##a(t)## other than ## H = \dot{a}{a}##. So you don't need to use the expression for ##a## that you quoted.

So following what you have said I have d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}

and dt=\frac{H^{-1}}{a}da\longrightarrow d(H^{-1})=\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\frac{da}{a} which looks hideous. Do I then stick this into the second term on the RHS of the integral? and then integrate by parts?

Yes, integrate by parts
$$\int u dv = uv - \int v du$$
with ##u=(H^{-1}/a)( d(H^{-1})/dt)## and ##v=a##. The integrated part gives the expression that you were asked to show. The remaining integral is a mess of time derivatives that you should be able to argue is much smaller than the leading term.
 
Ahh thank you! Will have a work through it and see what happens.
 
Ok, so I've looked at it, and something doesn't seem quite right, I am integrating over da, and so if I set v=a, then dv=da but then what happens to my da and what happens to the second a in the integral?
 
smallgirl said:
Ok, so I've looked at it, and something doesn't seem quite right, I am integrating over da, and so if I set v=a, then dv=da but then what happens to my da and what happens to the second a in the integral?

You've got a stray ##1/a##, so let me back up a step to where we had
$$ \int a~d\left(H^{-1}\right) = \int a~\frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} dt = \int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da. $$
We have to integrate this by parts, which gives
$$ \int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da = \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} a- \int a ~d\left( \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} \right) .$$
The integrand on the RHS should be thought of as ## d(\cdots) = [ d(\cdots)/dt] dt##.
 
So I have now

\int \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} da = \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} a- \int a ~\frac{d}{dt}\left( \frac{d\left(H^{-1}\right)}{dt} H^{-1} \right)dt

And I want to integrate the integral on the RHS by parts. To do this, I (assume)
dv=a and

u=\frac{d}{dt}\Bigg(\frac{d(H^{-1})}{dt}H^{-1}\Bigg)
 
Whenever you have ##a dt## you want to rewrite it as ##H^{-1} da##. If you keep integrating by parts you get a series with terms like
$$\left( H^{-1} \frac{d}{dt} \right)^n H^{-1}.$$
This series is what you want to truncate to the first term.
 
  • #10
Thank you so much, after doing the integrals about 4 times to see the series appear, I was able to see what I wanted. Thank you so much for your help and patience.
 
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