Design of CT with ferrite core for reverse operation of CT

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and operation of a current transformer (CT) with a ferrite core, specifically focusing on its use for coupling noise into a data cable (Cat5) in common mode. Participants explore the behavior of the transformer under different conditions and seek methods to increase the induced voltage in the cable.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their setup using a 50A/1A CT with a ferrite core and reports achieving a maximum of 380mV in the cable ends, seeking advice on how to increase this voltage to at least 1V.
  • Another participant explains that the transformer behaves like a voltage transformer without a return path and that the induced voltage is affected by the turns ratio of the transformer.
  • It is noted that if there is a separate conduction path, the transformer would behave as a current transformer, with the voltage on the cable being the product of the induced current and external return resistance.
  • A participant points out that the original poster has not provided the complete circuit of the cable terminations, which complicates the identification of the transformer mode of operation.
  • Further clarification is provided that without a common ground line in the connected device, the transformer operates as a voltage transformer, suggesting that the induced voltage will be a fraction of the signal generator voltage.
  • One participant questions the purpose of the testing given the lack of an alternative current path.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the operational mode of the transformer based on the presence or absence of a common ground. There is no consensus on the best method to increase the induced voltage, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal approach to achieve the desired voltage level.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully identified the circuit of the cable terminations, which may affect the understanding of the transformer’s behavior. The discussion includes assumptions about the turns ratio and the relationship between induced voltage and signal generator voltage.

Nikhil N
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I have to couple noise into data cable(cat5) in common mode. I have done this with a CT of 50A/1A, ferrite core. What I have done is, I connected the S1 and S2 of CT to probe of my signal generator and inserted the cable through the whole of CT(ring type). I got maximum of 380mV in the cable ends when only the signal from signal generator fed no data is transferring. But I have to couple atleast 1V to the cable. I want to know how can increase this, whether should I increase the turns on the ferrite core or any other method ? If I should increase the no of turns, how to calculate the no of turns and the wire specifications? (I used 200KHz, 10Vpp AC signal)
ct_testing_0.png
 
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The transformer will behave like a voltage transformer if there is no return path external to the transformer. The signal generator voltage will be reduced by the turns ratio of the transformer.

If there is a separate conduction path, (such as a common ground), between the ends of the cable, the transformer will behave like a current transformer. As a CT, the voltage on the cable will be equal to the product of the induced current and the external return resistance. V = I * R

You have not identified the complete circuit of the cable terminations so we cannot identify the transformer mode of operation.
 
Baluncore said:
The transformer will behave like a voltage transformer if there is no return path external to the transformer. The signal generator voltage will be reduced by the turns ratio of the transformer.

If there is a separate conduction path, (such as a common ground), between the ends of the cable, the transformer will behave like a current transformer. As a CT, the voltage on the cable will be equal to the product of the induced current and the external return resistance. V = I * R

You have not identified the complete circuit of the cable terminations so we cannot identify the transformer mode of operation.
For my device to which I am connecting the wires, doesn't have a common ground line...
 
Nikhil N said:
For my device to which I am connecting the wires, doesn't have a common ground line...
Then, as there is no alternative current path, the transformer is operating as a voltage transformer.
The induced voltage in the cable will be 1/10 of the loaded signal generator voltage. 380 mV induced on the cable suggests signal generator voltage when driving the 10 turn winding will be about 3.8 V. You can check that with a multimeter.

Without an external conduction path, what do you think you are testing ?
 

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