Dimensional Analysis: Reference Dimensions & Repeating Variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around dimensional analysis, specifically focusing on the concepts of reference dimensions and repeating variables in the context of modeling air drag on a tile. Participants explore the implications of choosing reference dimensions wisely and the criteria for identifying repeating variables, as well as the necessity of writing out full equations for effective dimensional analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the air drag (ϑ) is a function of several variables, including the tile's width (w), height (h), viscosity of air (μ), density of air (ρ), and air velocity (V).
  • It is suggested that a full equation must be written out before performing dimensional analysis to accurately group or cancel similar dimensions.
  • Definitions for "reference dimension" and "repeating variable" are requested, with some participants noting that reference dimensions typically include basic dimensions M, L, and T, but may vary based on the problem.
  • One participant explains that a repeating variable must be dimensionally independent of others and cannot be formed by combining the dimensions of other repeating variables.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of choosing reference dimensions wisely, with some arguing it may simplify the problem while others caution it could complicate the process.
  • Participants explore the representation of variables as row vectors and the use of linear algebra to identify a set of basis vectors for dimensional analysis.
  • Concerns are raised about whether two different variables sharing dimensions can still be considered repeating variables, questioning the clarity of the definitions provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions of reference dimensions and repeating variables, and there are multiple competing views on how to approach dimensional analysis effectively.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clear definitions for "reference dimension" and "repeating variable" in the literature referenced by participants, as well as the potential complexity introduced by linear algebra in selecting repeating variables.

goonking
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lets say for example, the air drag (ϑ) that wind exerts on a tile is a function of the tile's width (w), height (h), viscosity of air (μ), density of air (ρ) and velocity of the air (V)

then ϑ = f(w,h, μ, ρ, V)

ϑ : MLT-2
w: L
h: L
μ : ML-1T-1
ρ: ML-3
V: LT-1
I understand there are 3 basic dimensions : M, L, and T
but how do I decide which are 'reference dimensions', would choosing wisely simply the problem?also, w and h have the same dimensions (measure of length : L), so would they be considered 'repeating variables'?
 
Last edited:
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You must write out the full equation before doing dimensional analysis.
For example, your f(V) will in fact have a V2 term.
Only with the full equation can you group or cancel similar dimensions.
 
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please state the definitions for "reference dimension" and "repeating variable".
[edit: beaten to it...]
 
Simon Bridge said:
please state the definitions for "reference dimension" and "repeating variable".
[edit: beaten to it...]

My book doesn't seem to clearly define "reference dimension", it states "Usually the reference dimensions required to describe the variables will be the basic dimensions M, L, and T or F, L, and T. However, in some instances perhaps only two dimensions, such as L and T, are required, or maybe just one, such as L"

A repeating variable must be dimensionally independent of the others (i.e., the dimensions of one repeating variable cannot be reproduced by some combination of products of powers of the remaining repeating variables). This means that the repeating variables cannot themselves be combined to form a dimensionless product.
 
Baluncore said:
You must write out the full equation before doing dimensional analysis.
For example, your f(V) will in fact have a V2 term.
Only with the full equation can you group or cancel similar dimensions.
you mean the "pi" terms?
this book suggests using Buckingham pi theorem to find number of pi terms needed.
 
goonking said:
My book doesn't seem to clearly define "reference dimension", it states "Usually the reference dimensions required to describe the variables will be the basic dimensions M, L, and T or F, L, and T. However, in some instances perhaps only two dimensions, such as L and T, are required, or maybe just one, such as L"
It's basically saying the basis dimensions are the members of the smallest set of dimensions that you can use to get the dimensions of every other variable in the problem. (Or more generally, in the system of units you want to use.)
You can finess it to the dimensions of the most commonly used variables.

Choosing wisely your basis dimensions is pretty much the same as choosing your system of units - it may simplify things but the process can be more trouble than it's worth. Look up "unified units".

[edit] One of the things that is really useful though, is to write out the whole equation you are concerned with.

A repeating variable must be dimensionally independent of the others (i.e., the dimensions of one repeating variable cannot be reproduced by some combination of products of powers of the remaining repeating variables). This means that the repeating variables cannot themselves be combined to form a dimensionless product.
... OK, so would two different variables that share dimensions fit that definition? Doesn't the definition you wrote say the dimensions have to be different?
 
Last edited:
goonking said:
then ϑ = f(w,h, μ, ρ, V)
That does not help. You need the actual equation, not just a conceptual function of some variables.
 
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goonking said:
I understand there are 3 basic dimensions : M, L, and T
but how do I decide which are 'reference dimensions', would choosing wisely simply the problem?

Represent the variables as row vectors, using the values of the exponents of the fundamental dimensions as if they were scalar coefficients of some standard basis vectors.

##\vartheta: M^1L^1T^2:\ [ 1, 1, -2 ]##
##\ w: M^0L^1 T^0:\ [ 0,1, 0]##
##\ h: M^0L^1T^0:\ [0,1,0]##
##\mu:M L^{-1}T^{-1}:\ [1, -1, -1]##
##\rho:M^1L^{-3}T^0:\ [1, -3, 0]##
##\ V:M^0L^1T^{-1}:\ [0,1,-1]##

A repeating variable must be dimensionally independent of the others (i.e., the dimensions of one repeating variable cannot be reproduced by some combination of products of powers of the remaining repeating variables). This means that the repeating variables cannot themselves be combined to form a dimensionless product.

Then, for "repeating variables", you need to pick a set variables that are associated with a set of row vectors that can serve as a basis for the set of row vectors above. There may be different ways of doing this.

Scalar multiplication of a row vector by an integer represents finding the dimensions of a variable raised to that power.
For example, the dimensions of ##\vartheta^2## are ##2[ 1, 1, -2] = [2,2,-4] : M^2 L^2 T^{-4}##.

Addition of the row vectors corresponds to finding the dimensions of the multiplication of variables.
For example, ## \rho V^2:\ [1,-3,0] + 2[0,1,-1] = [ 1, -1, -2] :\ M L^{-1} T^{-2} ##

And, for example, from ##[1,-3,0] + 2[0,1,-1] + 2[0,1,0] = [1,1,-2]##, we see that the dimensions of ## \rho V^2 w^2 ## (or ##\rho V^2 wh##) match those of ##\vartheta##.

A "wise selection" of "repeating variables" allows you to express the other rows in terms of linear combinations of the rows of the repeating variables using small integer coefficients in the linear combinations.

You can use the usual procedures of linear algebra for finding a set of basis vectors for a given set of vectors, but these procedures will involve linear combinations with non-integer coefficients. The coefficients will be rational numbers, so you can transform such a linear combination to a linear combination with integer coefficients by multiplying every term by the common denominator of all the non-integer coefficients. However, this is somewhat of a nuisance. Picking a "wise choice" for the rows means to trying to avoid linear algebra that introduces a lot of fractions when you express the non-basis rows in terms of the basis rows.
 

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