Dirac notation Schwarz Inequality Proof

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a proof involving Dirac notation and the Schwarz inequality. Participants are exploring the manipulation of inner products and the implications of complex conjugates within the context of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to follow a proof but expresses confusion regarding the derivation of specific terms and the use of complex conjugates in Dirac notation.
  • Some participants question the interpretation of inner products and the transition between bra and ket forms, particularly regarding the signs and conjugates involved.
  • Others suggest reconsidering the properties of inner products and the implications of Hermitian conjugates on the terms being manipulated.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the proof, sharing their interpretations and confusions. Some have found clarity through explanations about the properties of inner products, while others continue to seek understanding of specific steps in the proof.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted lack of familiarity with Dirac notation among some participants, which may be contributing to the confusion. Additionally, the original poster mentions issues with the clarity of the printed material, which may affect their understanding of the proof.

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Homework Statement


This isn't really a problem so much as me not being able to see how a proof has proceeded. I've only just today learned about Dirac notation so I'm not too good at actually working with it. The proof in the book is:

|Z> = |V> - <W|V>/|W|^2|W>

<Z|Z> = <V - ( <W|V>/|W|^2 ) W| V - ( <W|V>/|W|^2 ) W> =

<V|V> - ( <W|V><V|W>/|W|^2 ) - ( <W|V>*<W|V>/|W|^2 ) + ( <W|V>*<W|V><W|W>/|W|^4| ) >= 0

This last step has me completely lost, and if someone could explain it I'd really appreciate it. It looks like he's pulled out the <V| and |V> and combined them to get <V|V>, but I don't get where the minus sign comes from, or how he gets any of the rest of the equation, so I'm assuming I'm wrong about where the <V|V> comes from.

I'm deeply sorry about the notation here, I typed this on a phone or I would've used LaTeX.

Homework Equations



<Z|Z> >= 0

The Attempt at a Solution



Mentioned in the first section.
 
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So you know that

<br /> |Z\rangle = |V\rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} |W\rangle<br />

So what do you think \langle Z| equals?
 
kreil said:
So you know that

<br /> |Z\rangle = |V\rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} |W\rangle<br />

So what do you think \langle Z| equals?

\langle Z| should just equal <br /> \langle V| - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} \langle W|<br />

right? So if I look at \langle Z|Z \rangle, I have to distribute, but I can't see how he's getting the terms he's getting, namely because I don't think I'm too comfortable with Dirac notation yet.

1: \langle V | V \rangle = \langle V | V \rangle obviously,

2: \langle V | - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} W \rangle seems like it should equal - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle \langle V|W \rangle}{|W|^2}

3: Probably the most confusing term for me:

\langle - \frac{\langle V|W \rangle}{|W|^2}W|V \rangle

This seems to me like it should just be - \frac{\langle V|W \rangle \langle W|V \rangle}{|W|^2} but this term doesn't appear anywhere in his final formulation really. I mean I guess \langle V|W \rangle is equivalent to his \langle W|V \rangle ^*, but why does he get that conjugate instead of the \langle V|W \rangle that I got?

4: then \langle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} W|- \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} W \rangle is the first term where I think I'm getting confused. For some reason the term he gets from this has a complex conjugate in it, which I assume means he's moving | - \frac{\langle W | V \rangle}{|W|^2} \rangle to the bra side, which I assume makes the top term a complex conjugate, leaving me with \langle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2}\frac{\langle W|V\rangle ^*}{|W|^2} W| W \rangle = \frac{ \langle W|V \rangle \langle W|V \rangle ^* \langle W|W \rangle}{|W|^4}

At the end, my final answer would look like: \langle V | V \rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle \langle V|W \rangle}{|W|^2} - \frac{\langle V|W \rangle \langle W|V \rangle}{|W|^2} + \frac{ \langle W|V \rangle \langle W|V \rangle ^* \langle W|W \rangle}{|W|^4}

This seems like it may at least be equivalent to his formulation based on what I said in 3, but even this took kind of a mental leap for me in part 4 with moving a term over to the bra side. Is that a correct step? If so, why?

Thanks so much for any help. I'm losing sleep over this.
 
No problem, anyone that gets a science degree loses some sleep over a problem or two, so I know what boat you're in!

Does it help if I say that,

<br /> |Z\rangle = \langle Z|^{\dagger}<br />
<br /> \langle Z| = |Z\rangle ^{\dagger}<br />

and that,

<br /> \langle W |V \rangle ^{\dagger} = \langle W | V \rangle ^* = \langle V|W\rangle ...?<br />

(In other words, the inner product of a bra and a ket is a complex number, and the Hermitian conjugate of a complex number is simply its complex conjugate.)

This all means that,

<br /> \langle Z| = |Z\rangle^{\dagger} = \left( |V\rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} |W\rangle \right) ^{\dagger} =\left( \langle V | - \frac{\langle W|V \rangle ^*}{|W|^2} \langle W| \right)<br />

So,

<br /> \langle Z | Z \rangle = \left( \langle V | - \frac{\langle W|V \rangle ^*}{|W|^2} \langle W| \right) \left( |V\rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} |W\rangle \right)<br />
See also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bra–ket_notation#Inner_products_and_bras
 
Yes, that clears it up completely, thank you.

I can now actually see the part in the book where the asterisk denoting that the initial setup involved a complex conjugate has been worn away due to shoddy printing, so I feel a lot better about this whole thing in general now.

Thanks so much!
 
kreil said:
So you know that

<br /> |Z\rangle = |V\rangle - \frac{\langle W|V\rangle}{|W|^2} |W\rangle<br />

So what do you think \langle Z| equals?
Hmm.. I don't get why the proof starts with that |Z>
Mind to explain it, please? thanks :)
 
Towards the end they consider, <W|V><V|W> = |<V|W>|, which I cannot understand. Please explain someone.
 

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