Displacement of Hanging Mass - Simple Pulley System

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of a simple pulley system involving a hanging mass. Participants explore the relationship between the extension of a cord and the resulting displacement of the mass, focusing on the constraints imposed by the system's geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between the extension of the cord and the movement of the hanging mass, suggesting that extending the cord by ##\delta## should result in a movement of ##\frac{\delta}{2}##.
  • Another participant proposes that it is important to differentiate between the distance pulled up and the increase in distance to the pulley, indicating that the mass's movement is not directly equal to the extension.
  • A third participant introduces a coordinate system by defining the distance from the ceiling to the left end of the cord as ##y##, leading to a reformulation of the relationship between the lengths involved in the system.
  • One participant notes that introducing the coordinate ##y## clarifies the situation, suggesting that it simplifies the understanding of the problem.
  • A later reply acknowledges a personal misunderstanding related to the lack of a fixed coordinate system, indicating that measuring distances relative to the pulley center was not clear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the mechanics of the pulley system. There are differing views on how to approach the problem, particularly regarding the definitions and relationships of the variables involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of defining a fixed coordinate system and the implications of different reference points on the analysis of the system. There are unresolved aspects regarding the mathematical relationships and constraints of the system.

erobz
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I'm having some kind of mental block.

2 to 1 - Pulley.jpg

If I extend ##l_x## by ##\delta## ,I expect the hanging mass to move ##\frac{ \delta}{2}##.

I can't figure out how this is the case from the constraint:

$$ l_x+l_1=C $$

##C## is an arbitrary length

I keep getting that ##l_1## changes by ##\delta##, but that must mean the height of the mass changes by ##\delta##...

:oldgrumpy:
 
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I suspect you need to differentiate between the distance you pull the left hand cord up, ##\delta##, and the increase in distance from that point to the pulley, ##\frac \delta 2##.
 
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Call the distance of the left end of the cord from the ceiling ##y##. Then ##l_x=l_1-y## and ##l_x=C-l_1## from the constraint given by the fixed length of the entire cord. Then you can eliminate the somewhat inconvenient quantity ##l_1## in favor of ##y## which has a well defined meaning of a coordinate, i.e., it's a length measured from a fixed reference point (the ceiling):
$$C-l_1=l_1-y \; \Rightarrow \; L_1=\frac{1}{2}(C+y).$$
So if you change ##y## by ##\delta## (which is the same as changing ##l_x## by ##-\delta##) ##L_1## (the distance of the pulley from the ceiling) changes by ##\delta/2##.
 
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vanhees71 said:
Then you can eliminate the somewhat inconvenient quantity ##l_1## in favor of ##y## which has a well defined meaning of a coordinate, i.e., it's a length measured from a fixed reference point (the ceiling):
The addition of the coordinate ##y## and the weirdness seems to vanish right in front of my eyes. Amazing!
 
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My key failure was that I had not defined a fixed coordinate system. I basically was trying to measure distances relative the datum at the center of the pulley...a transformation not so obvious to me.
 
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