Do photons interact with spacetime?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interaction of photons with spacetime, exploring concepts from relativity and the nature of light. Participants examine whether photons, being massless, influence or are influenced by spacetime, and how this relates to the constancy of the speed of light across different reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the constancy of the speed of light in all reference frames is due to the massless nature of photons and their interaction with spacetime.
  • Others argue that spacetime is affected by all entities with energy, including photons, suggesting a broader interaction than just mass.
  • A participant cautions against conflating relativity with photons, noting that relativity is a classical theory and suggesting a rephrasing of the discussion title to focus on light's interaction with spacetime.
  • It is mentioned that the curvature of spacetime is determined by the stress-energy tensor, which includes contributions from electromagnetic fields, indicating that light does interact with spacetime in this context.
  • Another point raised is that the concept of invariant speed is tied to the massless nature of light, although this may be conceptually misleading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between photons and spacetime, with no consensus reached on the nature of this interaction or the implications of relativity in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of precise language when discussing relativity and spacetime, noting that analogies may lead to misunderstandings. There is also an acknowledgment of the complexity surrounding the definitions and implications of massless particles and invariant speed.

platosuniverse
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The way I understand this is that Relativity says space-time is like a field that's affected by the way mass moves through it. Photons are massless so is this why the speed of light is the same in all reference frames?
 
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Spacetime is affected by everything with energy, this includes photons.
platosuniverse said:
Photons are massless so is this why the speed of light is the same in all reference frames?
This is completely unrelated to what you wrote before.
The laws of physics are the same in all reference frames. The same speed for massless particles it the only option, everything else would make different reference frames different.
 
You have to be careful about mentioning relativity and photons in the same breath. There aren't any photons in relativity; it's a classical theory motivated by the behavior of light considered as classical electromagnetic waves. Thus, this thread might be off to a better start if the title were "Does light interact with spacetime?"

You also must be careful when you say that spacetime "is like" anything. Those words "is like" imply that you're making an analogy, and an analogy isn't the real thing. An analogy may help you form a mental picture, but conclusions drawn from the analogy are suspect.

But with that said... the curvature of spacetime is determined by the stress-energy tensor. Electrical and magnetic fields do contribute to the stress-energy tensor, so in that sense light does interact with spacetime.
 
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In addition to what's been said above, it's a fundamental property of spacetime that there is an invariant speed. It turns out to follow fairly simply from that fact that "massless" and "travels at the invariant speed" are the same statement in different words. The first massless thing we discovered (before anyone understood my last sentence) was light, so the invariant speed is often called the speed of light. Arguably, that is slightly conceptually misleading.
 
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