Do you see coloured images if you listen to music?

  1. Do you see coloured images if you listen to music?
    Does a certain music chord taste salty for you?
    Are numbers coloured for you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia

    Then you might be a synaesthete. I'd like to ask if anyone here
    has such a synaestetic ability.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Evo

    Staff: Mentor

    My older daughter has synesthesia. She sees numbers and letters as colors.

    She is a gifted artist, one of the traits of a synesthete.

    synesthesia

    "synesthesia, which is considered to be a “gift” not a mere condition, seems to be more common among artists, writers, musicians and other creative individuals."

    “The painter David Hockney talked of hearing the colors that he subsequently painted, and the writer Vladimir Nabokov saw colors in the words he wrote. The composer Franz Lizst reported seeing the musical notes he composed in color. Then, there were the many artists and writers who desperately wanted to be synesthetes, such as Baudelaire.”
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2005
  4. JamesU

    JamesU 745
    Gold Member

    There is a man (i forgot his name) but he saw numbers as shapes and sizes. he could remember pi to 21,700 digits, and could do complicated equations in his head.
     
  5. I'm synesthetic. I see sounds as colors, and sometimes tastes as colors. It's a lot of fun. I also have "calendar lines" for days of the week and months of the year. That means I see the days or months arranged in a circle and I can "walk around" it in my mind.
     
  6. Evo

    Staff: Mentor

    this isn't a joke
     
  7. DocToxyn

    DocToxyn 432
    Science Advisor

    Evo, does your daughter actually take advantage of her gift or is it simply another aspect of her perception? In other words does it influence her art or just come along with it?

    Synesthesia is really an interesting condition that currently and historically has elicited neurophysiological and psychiatric investigation. PubMed brings up about 43 articles dealing with this condition. I haven't taken the time to dive into this subject, but it's quite compelling. Many such conditions or diseases have driven basic and clinical research to find out new aspects of neuroscience and human behavior. My quesiton is if a synesthete is also colorblind, do they hear F-sharps as C-minors? :wink:
     
  8. Evo

    Staff: Mentor

    I think it's the later, I haven't discussed it much with her, I was really surprised when I found out she saw letters and numbers as colors when she was in grade school, I had never heard about this.

    :rofl: Good question!
     
  9. What do you mean, "a joke," Evo?
     
  10. I don't think Liszt was synaesthesia. He was probably bragging and being intellectual. I think it was quite in fashion to have Synaesthesic experence as a musician/composer those days.

    Rimsky-Korsakoff is probably the most famous composer who had synaesthesia. Messian is often callen a 'true synaesthesia'. Beach was also a synaesthesia.

    Scriabin was probably not. He probably took his colours from Newtons 'Optica' and the circle of fifths. Thats what his major biographers wrote and it seems logica. Scriabin was quite insane though. Maybe Hypochondria or some form of Epilepsy or other nervous breakdowns or seizures. He would get terrible headaches for a day or two and then he would write music franticly.


    To hear if a note is A F# or C# requires perfect pitch. There are some people with mental disorders that limit their possibility to connect musical sounds into music. So to them music is random sound and they can't enjoy it. But pitchblindness? Never heard of it. Relative pitch is the way normal people listen to music.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2005
  11. I would argue that a good portion of the population is pitchblind...especially in the shower.
    :wink:
     
  12. hypnagogue

    hypnagogue 2,265
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    Daniel Tammet. He's an autistic savant who nonetheless has remarkably well-adjusted social skills-- you wouldn't know he was a savant just by talking to him, which is quite unusual for a savant. He has strong synaesthetic responses to numbers, experiencing each number as a unique perceptual object with its own characteristic traits of size, shape, color, and emotive charge. Many of his impressive cognitive feats seem to arise from the heavy cross-modal representations in his synaesthetic experience. For instance, he describes doing math and working with numbers not as an abstract reasoning process, but as a process where he just observes a perceptual landscape in his mind's eye and literally 'reads off' the answer from that landscape.

    There was a show about him recently on the Discovery Channel called 'Brainman' which, among other things, showed clips of his performance of reciting pi to 22,514 digits and becoming conversant in Icelandic (a notoriously difficult language in both grammar and pronounciation) in the course of a couple of weeks, with the help of a tutor. He went on a news show in Iceland and was able to have a coherent conversation with the hosts, and it wasn't a bluff-- my mother, who's Icelandic, said he spoke flawlessly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet
    You can also see a clip edited from the TV version of Brainman here:
    http://media.science.discovery.com/convergence/brainman/videogallery/videogallery.html

    see also http://plus.maths.org/issue31/features/eastaway/index-gifd.html
     
  13. hypnagogue

    hypnagogue 2,265
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    Interestingly, a paper by Roger Walsh in a recent edition of the Journal of Consciousness Studies (volume 12, no. 4, 2005) suggests that practicing meditation on a regular basis can actually cultivate one's ability to experience synaesthetically. Not every dedicated meditator will become a synaesthete, of course, but Walsh's surveys indicate that meditators are more likely to be synaesthetes than control populations, and also that the percentage of meditators who are synaesthetes might rise as a function of years of practice.
     
  14. Astronuc

    Staff: Mentor

    I heard about Synaesthesia on a radio program during the past couple of weeks. The narrator was talking about her grandmother, IIRC. Unfortunately, I didn't note the program. However, here are some interesting links.

    Factual information, individual anecdotes, and interactive activities which simulate synesthesia.
    web.mit.edu/synesthesia/www/synesthesia.html

    Interviews, examples and information about research on Synaesthesia.
    www.psychiatry.cam.ac.uk/isa/frames.html

    Synesthesia: Phenomenology And Neuropsychology
    Richard E. Cytowic's keystone article in Psyche. A review of current knowledge on synesthesia.
    psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-10-cytowic.html
     
  15. yeah, me too. exact same.

    if i see someone else's alphabet's colors, i'll get angry. :tongue:
     
  16. Richard Cytowic wrote a fascinating book called The Man Who Tasted Shapes primarily about a synesthete who had his sense of taste cross wired with his sence of touch. The taste of food would cause him to feel the sensation of touching various shapes, some pleasant some not, and textures.

    He was an enthusiastic cook, but his adjustment of recipes was done according to sense of touch rather than taste: he would add a little of this or a dash of that based on the illusory tactile sensations.

    Cytowic discovered the man was a synesthete by accident when he took a bite of chicken and blurted out something like "Oh, that chicken has too many points on it!" It had made his hands feel like they were touching something sharp and pointy.

    Another very unusual synesthete mentioned either by Cytowic or Oliver Sacks (I can't remember) had his sense of hearing cross wired with his sense of body position, his proprioception. The result was that the sound of certain words made him feel compelled to adopt a particular posture in response. A given word might make him cross his legs, turn his head to one side, and stick his left arm out in front of him. Each word demanded it's own particular posture.

    The conclusion may be that any two sences appear to be able to be cross wired like this. For some reason the sound/color vision combination is the most common.

    You have to wonder how it happened that evolution selected our physiological reaction to air vibrations to be in the form of "sound" in the first place. We might just as well have ended up processing air vibrations into something visual had everything gone differently, or into some completely different experience no one can imagine.

    I find this subject to be extremely fascinating.
     
  17. i remember reading somewhere that a guy had this and was also color blind. nowhere else in the world was there the color red until he looks at the number 3.
     
  18. Moonbear

    Moonbear 12,265
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    That leaves me wondering how he knew it was red if he had never before seen red for comparison. :confused: This is the part that puzzles me the most about synesthesia; if you always see colors with your numbers, how do you come to the awareness that the color isn't a normal thing that everyone else sees with that number? How do you learn it's a color and not a normal property of the number? And, do you still see the colors when you think of the abstract concept of the quantity the number represents, or only when looking at the number in print? Does it seem just as strange to them that other people don't see colors with their numbers as it seems to the rest of us that they do see them together?

    It's truly fascinating, and so hard to comprehend by someone who doesn't experience it.

    I'm wondering one other thing; if I type numbers in different colors, what does the synasthete see? Can you see both the color you normally associate with the number and the color I've written it in, or does it somehow make it confusing or hard to read the numbers if they are in color?
     
  19. I have never heard of the number-color connection before, but Cytowic discusses people who have a sound- color crossover quite a bit in his book. They see abstract shapes of distinct colors superimposed on their visual field in response to sounds. The colors and shapes come to match the types of sound. Listening to music is accompanied by a corresponding "light show". Many synesthetes have claimed Mozart gives the prettiest concomitant "light show" of all composers, for whatever that's worth.

    Most synesthetes have no idea that everyone else doesn't see the same way untill they try to discuss the colors with someone directly. Most of them, according to Cytowic, learn before they get out of grade school that they are alone in this, and have to hide the fact or be told they're crazy or lying. Some end up being taken to psychiatrists.

    He estimated there are about a million people with synesthesia in the US (that would be early 1990s). and that most of them were "underground"; not daring to tell even their closest friends and associates.
     
  20. Moonbear

    Moonbear 12,265
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    Thanks Zooby. I was just using the color/numbers example because it was mentioned a few times in this thread, not because it was important to my question that it be that specific example. I realize there are many ways the different senses can be combined all under the collective heading of synesthesia.

    Yes, I can understand the difficulty in admitting to experiencing synesthesia to someone who has never heard of it. It must be incredibly difficult for them, especially as children.

    Does it in any way hinder early childhood learning? I mean, we teach children things like numbers and colors by pointing and saying a name. If we point to something red and say "red," but then when they hear music and also see red, we say, "music," does that make it harder to learn their colors? Would an early sign of it be inappropriate responses to questions about colors or shapes? If you point to a rectangle and they say "red" every time, might it be time to have them evaluated?
     
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