Does a car's speed change during a turn?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a car's speed changes during a turn, particularly focusing on the effects of forces acting on the car and the assumptions made about those forces. Participants explore the relationship between speed, acceleration, and the dynamics of turning without external influences like friction or air resistance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a simulation showing that while the front wheel's speed increases during a turn, the center of the car's speed remains constant, assuming no external forces act on the car.
  • Another participant argues that the car's speed can increase or decrease during a turn depending on braking or acceleration, challenging the assumption of constant speed.
  • A clarification is made that the initial statement about speed remaining constant is a tautology, as it assumes no forces are acting to change the speed.
  • One participant emphasizes that if there are no factors affecting linear acceleration, only centripetal acceleration is present, which means the speed does not change, only the direction does.
  • Another participant agrees with the point about centripetal acceleration and the assumption of no external factors affecting speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the conditions under which a car's speed may change during a turn. While some agree that under specific assumptions (no external forces), speed remains constant, others argue that speed can vary based on braking or acceleration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion relies on assumptions about the absence of external forces such as friction and air resistance, which may not reflect real-world conditions. The implications of lateral friction during turning are also noted but not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in vehicle dynamics, physics of motion, and the effects of forces on speed during turning maneuvers.

MarkPS
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Imagine a car driving forward at constant speed. If the car would make a turn, each wheel would get its own speed since each wheel has its own radius to the center of the curve. But does the center of car's speed stay the same?

Here's a simulation I made: https://vid.me/HYz9 The red arrow represents the center of the car's velocity, the green arrow is the front wheel's velocity. As I turn the wheel, the front wheel's speed get's bigger, but the center of the car's speed stays the same. Is this accurate?

The way I see it is that if a car drives straight at speed V, it then makes a turn, after the turn it straightens out and the speed will still be V. Obviously this only works if there is no forces that slows down the speed, which is assumed here.
 
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This depends completely on the forces acting on the car. It is completely possible to have the car increase as well as decrease its speed during a curve depending on how hard you press the brakes and/or acceleration.
MarkPS said:
The way I see it is that if a car drives straight at speed V, it then makes a turn, after the turn it straightens out and the speed will still be V. Obviously this only works if there is no forces that slows down the speed, which is assumed here.
This is a tautology. You are basically saying "the car will not slow down unless there are forces acting in such a way that it slows down". The relation you might be after is this:
$$
\frac{dv}{dt} = \frac{d\sqrt{v^2}}{dt} = \frac{1}{2\sqrt{v^2}} \frac{dv^2}{dt} = \frac{1}{v} \vec v \cdot \vec a
$$
That is, the derivative of the speed is equal to the projection of the acceleration (and therefore proportional to the projection of the force) onto the direction of the velocity.
 
Orodruin said:
It is completely possible to have the car increase as well as decrease its speed during a curve depending on how hard you press the brakes and/or acceleration.

I was a bit unclear, I'm not breaking nor accelerating. I'm just turning the steering wheel.

Orodruin said:
This is a tautology. You are basically saying "the car will not slow down unless there are forces acting in such a way that it slows down".
I realize the problem with that sentence. What I mean is that there is no air resitance and no friction in the wheels' directions. Obviously we need friction so that the car can turn.

So given that I only turn the steering wheel, I don't press the gas or break. The car is not affected by friction or air resistance, but it still can turn (lateral friction?). Is my simulation then accurate?
 
If you make the assumption that there are no factors affecting linear acceleration (like rolling resistance effects related to side loads), then there's only centripetal acceleration, and in that case speed is not changed, only direction.
 
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rcgldr said:
If you make the assumption that there are no factors affecting linear acceleration (like rolling resistance effects related to side loads), then there's only centripetal acceleration, and in that case speed is not changed, only direction.
very well said.
 

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