Does a Lagrangian preserving transformation obey the equations of motion?

In summary, the conversation discusses the difficulty in proving a particular transformation of generalized coordinates in a system that satisfies Lagrange's equations. The transformation does not change the Lagrangian, and the individual is seeking help in proving that the transformed coordinates also satisfy Lagrange's equations. This is related to Noether's theorem, but the person asking the question is unable to find a proof and is frustrated by the lack of proof in their textbook and other sources.
  • #1
dEdt
288
2
This seems like such a simple question that I fully expect its solution to be embarrassingly easy, but try as I might I can't get the answer.

Consider some system which can be described by N generalized coordinates [itex]q_1,...,q_N[/itex] and a Lagrangian [itex]L(q_i,\dot{q}_i,t)[/itex]. (I'll just use [itex]q_i[/itex] as a stand in for [itex]q_1,...,q_N[/itex]). Let [itex]q_i(t)[/itex] be a solution to Lagrange's equations ie an actual possible trajectory through phase space that the system can follow.

Now we make the transformation [itex]q_i(t) \rightarrow Q_i(t)[/itex] such that the Lagrangian doesn't change. I want to prove that [itex]Q_i(t)[/itex] also satisfies Lagrange's equations.

This seems like it'd be so trivial to prove, and it probably is, but I can't brain today (or yesterday, apparently) and would appreciate your help.
 
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  • #2
it's not trivial to prove, in fact it's quite the opposite. this is the beggining of the proof of Noether's theorem. I personally don't remember the proof, but you can google it easily.
 
  • #3
Unfortunately, I was motivated to ask this question because the proof of Noether's theorem in my textbook asserted this without proof! And all other proofs that I've seen are constructed to avoid the problem.
 

1. What is a Lagrangian preserving transformation?

A Lagrangian preserving transformation is a type of transformation that preserves the form of the Lagrangian equations of motion. This means that the transformed equations of motion are still in the same form as the original equations, but with a different set of variables.

2. How does a Lagrangian preserving transformation affect the equations of motion?

A Lagrangian preserving transformation does not change the equations of motion themselves, but rather transforms the variables in the equations. This transformation allows for different sets of variables to be used to describe the same physical system, without changing the underlying dynamics.

3. Can a Lagrangian preserving transformation be applied to any system?

Yes, a Lagrangian preserving transformation can be applied to any system that can be described using the Lagrangian formalism. This includes classical mechanics, electromagnetism, and quantum field theory, among others.

4. What is the significance of a Lagrangian preserving transformation?

A Lagrangian preserving transformation is significant because it allows for a more general and flexible description of a physical system. It allows for different sets of variables to be used to describe the same system, which can often simplify calculations and make the underlying dynamics easier to understand.

5. How is a Lagrangian preserving transformation different from a canonical transformation?

A Lagrangian preserving transformation is a special case of a canonical transformation, which is a transformation that preserves the form of the Hamiltonian equations of motion. While both types of transformations preserve the underlying dynamics of a system, a Lagrangian preserving transformation only applies to systems described using the Lagrangian formalism, while a canonical transformation applies to systems described using the Hamiltonian formalism.

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