Does a symmetry of Lagrangian reserve in each Feynman diagram?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the preservation of symmetries of the Lagrangian in Feynman diagrams within perturbative quantum field theory (QFT). Participants explore the implications of symmetries, anomalies, and identities such as the Ward and Slavnov-Taylor identities in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether the symmetries of the Lagrangian are preserved in each Feynman diagram, referencing the Ward Identity as a potential basis for this consideration.
  • There is a suggestion that the creation and annihilation of particles and antiparticles in pairs may imply that Feynman diagrams preserve the unitary symmetries of the Lagrangian.
  • One participant notes that symmetries in the path integral formalism exist at the level of the effective action or matrix elements, emphasizing the importance of quantum corrections and the path integral measure.
  • Concerns are raised about the possibility of lifting classical symmetries to quantum symmetries, with the breakdown of classical symmetry during quantization referred to as an anomaly, exemplified by the chiral anomaly.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the meaning of "PI measure" and its role in the context of symmetries and anomalies.
  • There is a discussion about whether anomalies exist in the context of the Ward and Slavnov identities, with some participants questioning the implications of anomalies on these identities at the quantum level.
  • One participant asserts that there is an anomaly in all UA(1) symmetries in the Standard Model, leading to a violation of the Ward identity for the axial current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the preservation of symmetries in Feynman diagrams, with some suggesting that anomalies may affect this preservation. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the implications of symmetries and anomalies.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of the discussion on specific symmetries being investigated, as well as the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps related to anomalies and their implications for quantum symmetries.

ndung200790
Messages
519
Reaction score
0
Please teach me this:

Does a symmetry of Lagrangian be reserved in each Feynman diagram of perturbative QFT,because even Ward Identity still deduces from U(1) symmetry that we consider each diagram has?.

By the way, does effective action reserve the symmetry that Lagrangian has?.

Thank you very much for your kind helping.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Must antiparticle and particle be created or annihilated in a couple of antiparticle and particle?If this happens,I think the Feynman diagrams would reserve the unitary symmetries of Lagrangian(this maybe being deduced from functional integral formalism for Green functions).
 
ndung200790 said:
Does a symmetry of Lagrangian be reserved in each Feynman diagram of perturbative QFT
Symmetries in the path integral formalism do exist on the level of the effective action or matrix elements (e.g. Ward identities, Slavnov-Taylor identities). Both quantum corrections (loops) and especially the PI measure have to be taken into account.

It is not always possible to lift a classical symmetry to a quantum symmetry; breakdown of a classical symmetry during quantization is called an anomaly. A famous example, the axial (or chiral) anomaly which is generated by the non-invariance of the PI measure.

In canonical quantization a symmetry is represented via the (closure of the corresponding) operator algebra (derived from the classical algebra in phase space) after regularization.
 
What does ''PI measure'' mean?
 
And ''the anomaly'' would be the ''intermediate thing'' during quantization process,but it finishes its role after quantization.Is this correct?
 
ndung200790 said:
What does ''PI measure'' mean?
PI = path integral measure in the space of fields.

ndung200790 said:
And ''the anomaly'' would be the ''intermediate thing'' during quantization process,but it finishes its role after quantization.Is this correct?
I don't understand.

What happens is that the classical equation for current conservation

\partial_\mu j^\mu = 0

is replaced by something like

\partial_\mu j^\mu = \mathcal{O}

where both l.h.s. and r.h.s. are to be understood as marix elements and where the r.h.s. contains an operator that does not vanish globally on Hilbert space.

Check e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiral_anomaly as a starting point
 
Last edited:
Thank Mr Tom.Stoer very much for your teaching.
 
Please teach me once more :
So, wouldn't there be anomaly in the case of Ward Identity and Slavnov Identity(meaning the U(1) and SU(3) symmetry would be reserved at quantum level because we consider both loops and PI measure)?
 
At the moment,I have heard that in case of Ward Identity,there exist anomaly.So,where is the meaning of Ward Identity at quantum level.
 
  • #10
ndung200790 said:
At the moment,I have heard that in case of Ward Identity,there exist anomaly.
Of course it depends on the symmetry you are investigating. There is an anomaly in all UA(1) symmetries in the SM where the axial current is constructed like

j^\mu_5 = \bar{\psi}\gamma^\mu\gamma_5\psi

That means that the Ward identity for the axial current is violated.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 134 ·
5
Replies
134
Views
12K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
6K