Don't understand rules of continuity/discontinuity with Limits

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rules of continuity and discontinuity in the context of limits in calculus. Participants express confusion regarding the definitions and implications of continuity as presented in their textbooks, exploring various examples and counterexamples of continuous and discontinuous functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that continuity requires three conditions: the function must be defined at a point, the limit must exist, and the limit must equal the function's value at that point.
  • One participant suggests that the intuitive understanding of continuity is that a graph can be drawn without lifting a pen, although this characterization is acknowledged as not entirely accurate.
  • Another participant introduces the Heaviside step function as an example of a discontinuous function and questions whether it satisfies the continuity conditions.
  • Participants discuss the implications of undefined values in functions, particularly in relation to limits and continuity.
  • One participant attempts to create a function and analyze its continuity, leading to a discussion about the conditions under which a function is considered continuous or discontinuous.
  • There is a clarification regarding the notation used for functions and their domains, specifically the meaning of H:R→R.
  • Participants explore the consequences of defining a function differently at a specific point, illustrating how this affects continuity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the three conditions for continuity but express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of these rules. There is no consensus on the intuitive explanations or examples provided, and some disagreements arise regarding specific functions and their continuity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in understanding arise from the complexity of the definitions and the nuances of continuity, particularly in relation to undefined values and the implications of limits. Some mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students learning about limits and continuity in calculus, educators seeking to understand common misconceptions, and anyone interested in the foundational concepts of mathematical analysis.

HadanIdea
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Hi,

My textbook is giving me 3 rules that must be met to be continuous:

I don't understand what my textbook is trying to explain to me,

- ƒ is defined at a...:confused:

-Lim ƒ(x) = ƒ(a)...:confused:
x→a

all i undersdand is that if you draw a graph that is continuous, you must be able to draw the graph without lifting your pen.
 
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HadanIdea said:
Hi,

My textbook is giving me 3 rules that must be met to be continuous:

You only seem to be giving 2 rules below?

I don't understand what my textbook is trying to explain to me,

- ƒ is defined at a...:confused:

-Lim ƒ(x) = ƒ(a)...:confused:
x→a

all i undersdand is that if you draw a graph that is continuous, you must be able to draw the graph without lifting your pen.

That characterization isn't entirely correct, but it's a good intuition.

It would help if you would explain what you don't understand about the rules you've given above.

A good thing to try is to invent some discontinuous functions yourself and to see how the rules fail. One of the most famous examples is the Heaviside step function:

325px-Dirac_distribution_CDF.svg.png


So this function is defined as a function ##H:\mathbb{R}\rightarrow \mathbb{R}## such that ##H(x) = 0## if ##x<0##, ##H(x)=1## if ##x>0## and ##H(0) = 1/2##. You can see from the graph that the function is not continuous and that there is a problem in ##0##. Does this function satisfy

\lim_{x\rightarrow 0} H(x) = H(0)

Here's another function:

continuous_4.gif


Is this function continuous? Where is the problem? What rule doesn't it satisfy?

Another one:

continuous_5.gif


This function to be discontinuous. The reason is of course that the function is undefined at ##x=3##, so ##f(3)## is not defined. According to your definition, for the function to be continuous at ##3##, it must be defined there.
 
Hi micromass,

The third rule is:

Lim ƒ(x) exists
x→a

I don't understand the statement: H:R→R

I do understand H(x) = 0 if x < 0, and
H(x) = 1 if x > 1, from looking at the graph.


So if something is undefined it is:

2/0 or ∞/0, is 0/0 undefined or is it just 0?


Here is one i tried to make up:

ƒ(x) = x + 3 (1)
x→a

then;

ƒ(1) = 1 + 3
= 4

would that exampe state the ƒ(x) ≠ ƒ(a)

because (1) = 4...discontinuous
 
HadanIdea said:
Hi micromass,

The third rule is:

Lim ƒ(x) exists
x→a

OK, makes sense.

I don't understand the statement: H:R→R

It means that the domain of ##H## is ##\mathbb{R}## and the codomain ##\mathbb{R}##. So this means that ##H## is a function that takes in elements of ##\mathbb{R}## and outputs elements of ##\mathbb{R}##. For example, you can input ##-2## and get as output ##0##.

I do understand H(x) = 0 if x < 0, and
H(x) = 1 if x > 1, from looking at the graph.So if something is undefined it is:

2/0 or ∞/0, is 0/0 undefined or is it just 0?

No, it's just undefined. It doesn't have any value. For example, if I define the function ##F##such that ##F(x) = 0## for ##x<0## and ##F(x) = 0## for ##x>0##. Then I haven't stated what ##F(0)## is. Thus ##F## is undefined in ##0##.

Here is one i tried to make up:

ƒ(x) = x + 3 (1)
x→a

The ##x\rightarrow a## should be under a limit. I take it that you define the function ##f(x) = x+3##. This is fine.

Let's investigate continuity in ##a=5##. On one hand, we have ##f(5) = 5+3 = 8##. On the other hand, we can prove that

\lim_{x\rightarrow 5} f(x) = \lim_{x\rightarrow 5} x+3 = 8

So we see that

\lim_{x\rightarrow 5} f(x) = f(5)

so the function is continuous in ##5##. You can do the same with all other values of ##a## in this case.

On the other hand, let's define ##g(x) = x+3## for each ##x\neq 5## and let's define ##g(5) = 0##. This is also perfectly possible. Then we have ##g(5) = 0##, but

\lim_{x\rightarrow 5} g(x) = \lim_{x\rightarrow 5} x+3 = 8

So we have that

\lim_{x\rightarrow 5} g(x) \neq g(5)

hence the function is not continuous in ##5##.
 
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Just to add to what micromass has already said, "##f## is defined at ##a##" is essentially just another way of saying "##a## is in the domain of ##f##".

If you write the three conditions out as

(1) ##\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x)## exists
(2) ##f## is defined at ##a##
(3) ##\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x)=f(a)##

then conditions (1) and (2) ensure that it makes sense to talk about, respectively, the left and right hand sides of the equation in (3). For instance, if ##f## is not defined at ##a##, then the term (i.e. collection of symbols) "##f(a)##" is literally meaningless, and the equation in (3) is nonsense. Or to put it another way, the three conditions could be stated in (slightly) more colloquial language as

(1) ##\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x)## is a number
(2) ##f(a)## is also a number
(3) ##\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x)## and ##f(a)## are the same number.
 
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