Doppler Effect and the speed of sound

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on a homework problem involving the Doppler Effect, where a siren's frequency changes as it approaches and then moves away from an observer. The initial frequencies observed are 1370 Hz and 1330 Hz, with the observer moving at 35 m/s and the speed of sound in air at 340 m/s. The equations derived to calculate the speed of the siren led to confusion, particularly regarding the signs in the equations. It is clarified that when the siren approaches, the observer's motion affects the frequency differently than when the siren moves away. The correct speed of the siren is determined to be +40 m/s, emphasizing the importance of correctly applying the signs in the Doppler equations.
Potatochip911
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Homework Statement


You are moving at a speed of 35m/s and hear a siren coming from behind you and observe the frequency to be 1370 Hz. The siren goes past you and the new frequency heard is 1330 Hz. What is the speed of the siren traveling at? The speed of sound in air is 340m/s.
f1=1370 Hz
f2= 1330 Hz
D=35m/s
V=340m/s

Homework Equations


fl=fo*((V+D)/(V+S))

The Attempt at a Solution


Since the original frequency is not given I decided to make 2 equations with the different frequencies then just divide to eliminate the original frequency.
f1=fo*((V+D)/(V-S)) <-Since the siren is approaching
f1*(V-S)=fo*(V+D)
f2=fo*((V-D)/(V+S)) <-Since the siren is moving away
f2*(V+S)=fo*(V-D)
Dividing the 2nd equation by the first,
[f2*(V+S)]/[f1*(V-S)]=(V-D)/(V+D)
Letting C=f2/f1
C(V+S)(V+D)=(V-D)(V-S)
C(V2+SV+DV+SD)=(V2-DV-SV+SD)
CV2+CSV+CDV+CSD=V2-DV-SV+SD
CV2+CDV+DV-V2=-SV+SD-CSD-CSV
CV(V+D)+V(D-V)=S(-V+D-CD-CV)
S={V[C(V+D)+(D-V)]/[V(-1-C)+D(1-C)]}
Which gives me S=-40m/s which doesn't make any sense, I'm not sure where my mistake is but the correct answer is +40m/s.
 
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Check the signs in the numerators of the equations for fi.

When the siren is approaching, you are moving away from the siren (at least relative to the air).
When the siren is moving away, you are approaching the siren (at least relative to the air).
 
mfb said:
Check the signs in the numerators of the equations for fi.

When the siren is approaching, you are moving away from the siren (at least relative to the air).
When the siren is moving away, you are approaching the siren (at least relative to the air).
So in f1 are both of the signs negative and in f2 both signs are positive?
 
Right.
In both cases, the velocity of the ambulance and your velocity have opposite effects, in one case you have larger numerator and denominator and in the other case both get reduced. Which one is which depends on your choice of the coordinate system.
 
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