Easy zener diode circuit questions

[nothing909]

Homework Statement

The Attempt at a Solution

[/B]
So basically, as the question says, you need to calculate the current in the zener and load when the supply voltage is 10V and then again when it's 15V.

FOR 10V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 10-5 = 5v

Supply current = 5/1000 = 5mA

Voltage across load = 5V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5/1000 = 5mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 5 – 5 = 0
FOR 15V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 15-5 = 10v

Supply current = 10/1000 = 10mA

Voltage across load = 5V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5/1000 = 5mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 10 – 5 = 5 mA


This doesn't look correct. I've never did a question with zener diodes before and I'm confused. What is it I'm doing wrong?

 

[cnh1995]

Homework Statement

View attachment 108511

The Attempt at a Solution

[/B]
So basically, as the question says, you need to calculate the current in the zener and load when the supply voltage is 10V and then again when it's 15V.

FOR 10V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 10-5 = 5v

Supply current = 5/1000 = 5mA

Voltage across load = 5V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5/1000 = 5mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 5 – 5 = 0
FOR 15V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 15-5 = 10v

Supply current = 10/1000 = 10mA

Voltage across load = 5V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5/1000 = 5mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 10 – 5 = 5 mAThis doesn't look correct. I've never did a question with zener diodes before and I'm confused. What is it I'm doing wrong?

Looks correct to me.

 

[gneill]

Your calculations are fine as far as they go, however...

The designation "5V1" on the zener diode is a fairly common way to specify the zener voltage where the "V" is placed to represent the decimal point. I don't know if this syntax was explained to you. So the zener in question has a 5.1 V threshold.

This will affect your calculations. In particular, if there's not enough voltage "left" after the drop across R1 to let the zener operate then the zener can't conduct any current; it's as if the zener is removed from the circuit. I suggest that the first thing to check is whether or not a zener in that location will be able to conduct: remove the zener and check the potential at that node. If it's less than the zener voltage then the zener will have no effect on the circuit. If it's higher than the zener voltage, then the zener can conduct and "pull" the voltage down to its threshold voltage of 5.1 V.

 

[nothing909]

Looks correct to me.

So the current through the zener for the 10v supply is 0A?

My lecturer was saying that instead of using 5V for the zener, I should be using 5.1V because that's its breakdown voltage or something.

 

[cnh1995]

So the current through the zener for the 10v supply is 0A?

My lecturer was saying that instead of using 5V for the zener, I should be using 5.1V because that's its breakdown voltage or something.

Right. I didn't know 5V1 means 5.1V. Post #2 clarifies that.

 

[nothing909]

Your calculations are fine as far as they go, however...

The designation "5V1" on the zener diode is a fairly common way to specify the zener voltage where the "V" is placed to represent the decimal point. I don't know if this syntax was explained to you. So the zener in question has a 5.1 V threshold.

This will affect your calculations. In particular, if there's not enough voltage "left" after the drop across R1 to let the zener operate then the zener can't conduct any current; it's as if the zener is removed from the circuit. I suggest that the first thing to check is whether or not a zener in that location will be able to conduct: remove the zener and check the potential at that node. If it's less than the zener voltage then the zener will have no effect on the circuit. If it's higher than the zener voltage, then the zener can conduct and "pull" the voltage down to its threshold voltage of 5.1 V.

Should I use 5.1 in the calculation or just 5?

 

[gneill]

Should I use 5.1 in the calculation or just 5?

The zener voltage is 5.1 V. Use 5.1 V. And do the check I suggested for each of your power supply voltage cases.

 

[nothing909]

FOR 10V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 10-5.1 = 4.9v

Supply current = 4.9/1000 = 4.9mA

Voltage across load = 5.1V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5.1/1000 = 5.1mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 4.9 – 5.1 = -0.2 mA
FOR 15V SUPPLY

Voltage across resistor = 15-5.1 = 9.9v

Supply current = 9.9/1000 = 9.9mA

Voltage across load = 5.1V as Zener and load are in parallel

Current through load = 5.1/1000 = 5.1mA

Current through Zener = Supply current – Load current = 9.9 – 5.1 = 4.8 mASo for the current through the zener for the 10V supply, it's -0.2mA? I don't understand. Is that correct?

 

[cnh1995]

So for the current through the zener for the 10V supply, it's -0.2mA? I don't understand. Is that correct?

This means the zener is not working and has no effect on the circuit. You should analyse the circuit by removing the zener. It is not conducting any current.

 

[gneill]

So for the current through the zener for the 10V supply, it's -0.2mA? I don't understand. Is that correct?

Re-read the second paragraph of my reply in post #3.

 

[nothing909]

Okay, so that calculation is correct but the zener just doesn't do anything in the circuit?

 

[gneill]

Okay, so that calculation is correct but the zener just doesn't do anything in the circuit?

The calculation is fine mathematically, but it doesn't apply to the circuit you're analyzing. You're making an assumption about the potential at the top of the zener which is not true for this case.

 

[nothing909]

Okay, so let's say I get that question in my test and I do the calculations that I have just shown using 5.1V as the zener voltage. Will I get the marks for that?

 

[gneill]

Okay, so let's say I get that question in my test and I do the calculations that I have just shown using 5.1V as the zener voltage. Will I get the marks for that?

No. At best you'll get partial marks. You failed to recognize that the zener was not going to conduct at all because it was being "asked" to operate outside of its range of operation for zener mode.

Always check whether or not the zener is going to be able to conduct in a given situation. If it cannot conduct then it won't behave as a zener; it'll just behave as an open circuit.

 

[nothing909]

So the 15V supply one is correct?

For the 10V supply one, should the calculations shown not prove that it doesn't conduct? After I prove it doesn't conduct, should I then not just then write a statement saying "the zener will not conduct..."

If I don't show they calculations for the 10V supply, how do I know by just looking at it that it won't conduct?

 

[gneill]

So the 15V supply one is correct?

Yes.

For the 10V supply one, should the calculations shown not prove that it doesn't conduct? After I prove it doesn't conduct, should I then not just then write a statement saying "the zener will not conduct..."

You could say that. But you still need to state the zener current and load current explicitly in order to answer the question.

If I don't show they calculations for the 10V supply, how do I know by just looking at it that it won't conduct?

You first do the check that I explained in post #3. Just do the check. It's that simple.

Once you have gained experience you'll be able to spot these "iffy" or "borderline" cases by looking at the part values in the circuit. I see that R1 and R2 have the same value and would form a voltage divider if the zener were not there. As a voltage divider they would want to produce a potential of half the supply voltage at their junction. Half of 10 volts is 5 volts, which is less than the zener voltage of 5.1 V, so the zener won't be able to turn on.

 

[nothing909]

Yes.
You could say that. But you still need to state the zener current and load current explicitly in order to answer the question.

I'm sorry for going on but what do you mean I need to state explicitly the load and zener current? Didn't I do that?

Zener currrent = - 0.2mA
Load current 5.1mA

I calculated the supply current to be 4.9mA so how can the load current be 5.1?

 

[gneill]

I'm sorry for going on but what do you mean I need to state explicitly the load and zener current? Didn't I do that?

Zener currrent = - 0.2mA
Load current 5.1mA

I calculated the supply current to be 4.9mA so how can the load current be 5.1?

You stated two incorrect values. No points for that.

You made an incorrect assumption, that the zener would hold its voltage at 5.1 V. With the given circuit and a 10 V supply the zener could not do that (which is why you want to do the check first). So the load current and the source current, both calculated assuming that the zener would be at 5.1 V, ended up with incorrect values.

 

[nothing909]

You stated two incorrect values. No points for that.

You made an incorrect assumption, that the zener would hold its voltage at 5.1 V. With the given circuit and a 10 V supply the zener could not do that (which is why you want to do the check first). So the load current and the source current, both calculated assuming that the zener would be at 5.1 V, ended up with incorrect values.

Okay, so before doing any calculations I check if it will work and if not, I state that it won't conduct. What about the values that "I need to state explicitly?" What are the values I need to state to get all the marks?

 

[gneill]

You need to state that the zener current is zero and the actual load current (by a new calculation).

 

[nothing909]

If the zener current is 0, the load current must just be 4.9mA, right?

So, zener doesn't conduct. Zener current = 0 Load current = 4.9mA

 

[gneill]

If the zener current is 0, the load current must just be 4.9mA, right?

So, zener doesn't conduct. Zener current = 0 Load current = 4.9mA

Show your calculation for that.

 

[nothing909]

The calculation is load current = supply current - zener current = 4.9mA - 0 = 4.9

Am I correct?

 

[gneill]

The calculation is load current = supply current - zener current = 4.9mA - 0 = 4.9

Am I correct?

No. How did you determine the supply current?

 

[nothing909]

Oh, yea, sorry.

Voltage across resistor = 10V

Supply current = 10/1000 = 10mA

Load current = Supply current - Zener current = 10 - 0 = 10mA

 

[gneill]

Oh, yea, sorry.

Voltage across resistor = 10V

Supply current = 10/1000 = 10mA

Load current = Supply current - Zener current = 10 - 0 = 10mA

No, 10 V is not across R1. Re-draw the circuit with the zener removed. What's left?

 

[nothing909]

There's only 2 1k resistors left in series. 5V is split between both of them.

Total resistance = 2k

Supply current = V/R = 10/2000 = 5mA

Load current = 5mA

 

[gneill]

There's only 2 1k resistors left in series. 5V is split between both of them.

Total resistance = 2k

Supply current = V/R = 10/2000 = 5mA

Load current = 5mA

Yes!

From that information, what potential would you have at the junction of the resistors?

 

[nothing909]

I don't understand what you mean. :/

 

[nothing909]

Can I ask one more question about this circuit. What is zener voltage supposed to be? 9.1?

 

[gneill]

I don't understand what you mean. :/

If your load current is 5 mA, what is the voltage V₁ in the following diagram?

Can I ask one more question about this circuit. What is zener voltage supposed to be? 9.1?

Yes.

 

[nothing909]

If your load current is 5 mA, what is the voltage V₁ in the following diagram?
View attachment 108524Yes.

The voltage is 5V.

And just quickly about that second circuit, just so I know this is correct. The reading on the voltmeter would be 9.1V and the reading on the ammeter would be:

Voltage across resistor = 20 - 9.1 = 10.9V

Reading on ammeter = 10.9/10000 = 1.09mA

 

[gneill]

The voltage is 5V.

Correct. Which is less that the zener voltage of 5.1 V. So the zener placed there would not conduct. That's the test I was urging you to carry out.

And just quickly about that second circuit, just so I know this is correct. The reading on the voltmeter would be 9.1V and the reading on the ammeter would be:

Voltage across resistor = 20 - 9.1 = 10.9V

Reading on ammeter = 10.9/10000 = 1.09mA

Yes, that looks good.

 

[nothing909]

Correct. Which is less that the zener voltage of 5.1 V. So the zener placed there would not conduct. That's the test I was urging you to carry out.

Yes, that looks good.

okay, great, thanks very much for all your help. :)