Electric field integral: Convergence where ρ is nonzero

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of the electric field integral for a homogeneously charged sphere, particularly focusing on the convergence of the integral when the observation point is inside the sphere. Participants explore various methods of calculating the electric field, including direct integration and the use of Gauss' Law, while addressing concerns about convergence and the implications of the Shell Theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the convergence of the electric field integral as the observation point approaches the charge distribution, noting that the electric force increases without limit.
  • Another participant argues that the non-convergence issue is mitigated by the symmetry of the charge distribution, suggesting that forces from opposite sides cancel out at the observation point.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the integral does converge, attributing the initial concerns to a misunderstanding of the volume element in the integration process.
  • Some participants discuss the application of Gauss' Law and the Shell Theorem, indicating that the electric field inside a filled sphere increases linearly with distance from the center and exhibits a different behavior outside the sphere.
  • One participant suggests calculating the electric potential first, providing a detailed integral expression for the potential inside and outside the sphere based on the charge density.
  • There is a reiteration of the distinction between filled spheres and spherical shells, with emphasis on how the Shell Theorem can be applied to derive results for filled spheres.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the convergence of the integral and the implications of the Shell Theorem. While some agree on the utility of Gauss' Law and the symmetry arguments, there is no consensus on the resolution of the convergence issue or the best approach to calculating the electric field.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about charge distributions and the applicability of mathematical techniques, which may not be universally accepted or resolved. The integration steps and the dependence on spherical coordinates are highlighted as areas requiring careful consideration.

greypilgrim
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Hi.

I know how to use Gauss' Law to find the electric field in- and outside a homogeneously charged sphere. But say I wanted to compute this directly via integration, how would I evaluate the integral
$$\vec{E}(\vec{r})=\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\int\rho(\vec{r}')\frac{\vec{r}-\vec{r}'}{|\vec{r}-\vec{r}'|^3} dx' dy' dz'$$
if ##\vec{r}## is inside the sphere? This doesn't seem to converge for ##\vec{r}'\rightarrow\vec{r}## and ##\rho(\vec{r}')\neq\ 0##.
 
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The non-convergence is because the electric force increases without limit as ##\vec r'\to\vec r##. This increase has no effect as long as ##\vec r## is strictly interior to the sphere - ie not on the surface. Why? - because for every incremental rectangle pushing a test particle at ##\vec r## in one direction there is an antipodal (relative to ##\vec r## as centre) rectangle pushing in the opposite direction, and thus cancelling out the force.

Let B be the subset of the sphere that is the largest spherical area centred on ##\vec r## that is entirely contained within the large sphere. Then, by the above reasoning, the field generated at ##\vec r## by the particles in B is zero. So we only need integrate over the large sphere excluding the area B - and that means that for all ##\vec r'## we have ##\|\vec r'-\vec r\|\geq \mathrm{radius}(B)>0##.

I think the calculation of electric forces inside a sphere can use the Shell Theorem, which is usually presented for gravity but should work just as well for electrostatic forces. The wiki article presents a geometric proof by Newton that is different from the one using Gauss's law (which it presents as well).
 
Actually, now I think of it, it converges anyway, because as ##\vec r\to \vec r'## the product ##dx'dy'dz'##, which is the incremental volume element, is of order ##\|\vec r-\vec r'\|^3##, and that cancels out the denominator that was causing the concern. The apparent non-convergence is an illusion generated by using the shortcut notation ##\vec r'## in the integrand rather than the actual function of ##dx',dy',dz'## for which it stands.
 
I was actually talking about a filled sphere, not a spherical shell. Using Gauss' Law, one can show that the electric field inside increases linearly with increasing distance from the center and exhibits the usual ##\frac{1}{r^2}##-decay on the outside.

But you're right about the convergence, it becomes even more apparent in spherical coordinates.
 
Yes you can :-). I'd not bother with the combersome integral for the field directly but rather calculate the potential first. In Heaviside-Lorentz units we have
$$\phi(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4 \pi} \int_{\mathbb{R}}^3 \mathrm{d} \vec{x}' \frac{\rho(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.$$
Since it's clear that ##\phi## will depend on ##r=|\vec{x}|## only by symmetry, we can as well choose ##\vec{x}=r \vec{e}_z## and introduce the usual spherical coordinates, then for ##\rho(\vec{x})=\text{const}## for ##r<R## and ##0## for ##r \geq R## you have
$$\phi(r)=\frac{\rho}{4 \pi} \int_0^{R} \mathrm{d} r' \int_{0}^{\pi} \mathrm{d} \vartheta \int_0^{2 \pi} \mathrm{d} \varphi \frac{r^{\prime 2} \sin \vartheta}{\sqrt{r^2+r^{\prime 2} -2 r r' \cos \vartheta}}.$$
The integral over ##\varphi## just gives a factor ##2 \pi##, and then we substitute ##\cos \vartheta =u##, leading to
$$\phi(r)=\frac{\rho}{2} \int_0^{R} \mathrm{d} r' \int_{-1}^{1} \mathrm{d} u \frac{r^{\prime 2}}{\sqrt{r^2+r^{\prime 2} -2 r r' u}}.$$
Now we do the ##u## integral, leading to
$$\phi(r)=\frac{\rho}{2r} \int_0^{R} \mathrm{d} r' r'(r+r'-|r-r'|).$$
If now ##r>R## you can simply omitt the absolute sign and get
$$\phi(r)=\frac{\rho}{2r} \int_0^R \mathrm{d} r' 2 r^{\prime 2}=\frac{\rho R^3}{3 r}=\frac{Q}{4 \pi r} \quad \text{for} \quad r>R.$$
In the last step, I've used $$Q=4 \pi \rho/3$$. So this reproduces indeed the Coulomb law outside of the sphere, as it must be.

For ##r<R## you have to split the integral into two parts
$$\int_0^{R} \mathrm{d} r' r'(r+r'-|r-r'|)=\int_0^{r} \mathrm{d} r' 2 r^{\prime 2}+ \int_{r}^R \mathrm{d} r' 2 r r'=\frac{2}{3} r^3 + r (R^2-r^2)=r R^2-\frac{r^3}{3},$$
i.e.,
$$\phi(r)=\frac{\rho}{2} \left (R^2-\frac{r^2}{3} \right) \quad \text{for} \quad 0 \leq r \leq R.$$
 
Last edited:
greypilgrim said:
I was actually talking about a filled sphere, not a spherical shell.
I understand that. The shell theorem starts with shells and then deduces results about filled spheres, by integrating over concentric spherical shells, to get the result that the field at any point p inside a solid sphere and distance r from the centre is the same as the field that would obtain if the entire charge (for electricity) or mass (for gravity) of the concentric sub-sphere of radius r was concentrated at the centre and there were no other charge or mass.
 
Yes, and in my calculation I just did that: First integrate over "shells", i.e., doing the angle integrals in spherical coordinates, i.e., first integrating over the spherical shells.
 

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