Electric Field Vectors: Does Force Follow Direction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between electric field vectors and the forces acting on charged and uncharged particles. Participants explore concepts related to electric fields, forces on charged particles, and the behavior of electric dipoles in uniform electric fields. The scope includes theoretical explanations and conceptual clarifications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the electric force on a charged particle aligns with the direction of the electric field only if the particle is positively charged; negatively charged particles experience force in the opposite direction.
  • It is noted that uncharged particles do not experience any force in an electric field.
  • Questions arise regarding the relationship between electric field vectors and the force exerted by a uniform electric field, particularly in the context of electric dipoles.
  • Some participants express confusion about why the force exerted by a uniform electric field is not parallel to the field itself and seek clarification on the conditions under which torque is generated.
  • There is a discussion about the behavior of dipoles in electric fields, including their alignment and the implications for torque and net force.
  • Participants express differing views on the correctness of specific options related to electric field configurations, indicating a lack of consensus on certain points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on some foundational concepts regarding electric forces and fields, but multiple competing views remain regarding the specifics of force direction, torque, and the behavior of dipoles. The discussion remains unresolved on several technical points.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on definitions of force and torque, as well as the assumptions regarding the uniformity of electric fields and the alignment of dipoles. Unresolved mathematical steps related to the forces and torques acting on dipoles are also noted.

MathewsMD
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Is the electric force on a charged particle always in the same direction of the field? What if it is an uncharged particle?

If you have an electron, with the field vectors pointing radially inward, then place a proton in the field, then yes since the proton is attracted towards the electron as well. But if you place an electron in the field, the electric force will not be in the same direction as the force, right?

The same concept applies with an electric field about a stationary proton, if you have another proton, then yes, the directions of the electric force and field are the same. But if you have an electron, this is not true.

Could anyone please clarify or confirm anything I have said? Thank you!
 
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MathewsMD said:
Is the electric force on a charged particle always in the same direction of the field?

This is true only if the particle is positively charged. As you note later, if the particle is negatively charged, the force is in the opposite direction to the field.

What if it is an uncharged particle?

Then there is no force.
 
Also, based on this:

YEVs2Oh.png


I understand why C is correct. But isn't option A and technically C right too?
Since the field vectors would be pointing downward and right with the greatest magnitude in situation 1.
 
Sorry for the extra questions. They're just related and I rather not open a new thread.

For:
0uvPOVJ.png


Why is the force exerted by a uniform electric field not parallel to it? The force and electric field vectors are parallel, right? Why does the field have to not be parallel to the dipole moment in order for there to be torque? Why can't it be just perpendicular as well? Dipole moments are a little new and any explanation would be very helpful!
 
Any help? I am trying to think about it logically but am missing something.
 
MathewsMD said:
Also, based on this:

YEVs2Oh.png


I understand why C is correct. But isn't option A and technically C right too?
Since the field vectors would be pointing downward and right with the greatest magnitude in situation 1.

I would tend to agree that A is true too. I'll look more at this... It would help if you could write down the relative total vector fields for each configuration...
 
MathewsMD said:
Sorry for the extra questions. They're just related and I rather not open a new thread.

For:
0uvPOVJ.png


Why is the force exerted by a uniform electric field not parallel to it? The force and electric field vectors are parallel, right? Why does the field have to not be parallel to the dipole moment in order for there to be torque? Why can't it be just perpendicular as well? Dipole moments are a little new and any explanation would be very helpful!

The key is the uniformity of the electric field. The net force of a uniform electric field on an electric dipole is what?

There may be a temporary force on the ends of the dipole if it is not yet aligned with the E-field, but eventually what happens?
 
berkeman said:
The key is the uniformity of the electric field. The net force of a uniform electric field on an electric dipole is what?

There may be a temporary force on the ends of the dipole if it is not yet aligned with the E-field, but eventually what happens?

Hmmm..don't dipoles become aligned to become parallel in the electric field? Therefore there would be no torque, but isn't there still a parallel force from the electric field? You stress the uniformity though...are the field vectors supposed to cancel, regardless of the object in it?
 
MathewsMD said:
Hmmm..don't dipoles become aligned to become parallel in the electric field? Therefore there would be no torque, but isn't there still a parallel force from the electric field? You stress the uniformity though...are the field vectors supposed to cancel, regardless of the object in it?

You have the correct intuition. If the dipole is not yet aligned, there is a net torque. If there is no damping, the dipole will oscillate.

Once the dipole is aligned with the E-field, there is no net force or torque. I have a feeling that you can write the equations that show that...
 

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