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Electric machines (looking for books)

  1. Jun 16, 2015 #1
    Please help me, this is my last hope. I am an el. engineer student and i need GOOD books on electrical machinery. My proffesor is more a good repairman than a great scientist who could teach me about all the theoretical (matematical and physical) concepts which have led to modern design process and calculation methods in the el. machinery industry sector. I want to learn as much as i can (publically available knowlege) first to get the fundamental concepts on deep lvl of understanding. I am not stupid to think that todays developers use directly Maxwells equations for engineering calculations, but it is very important for my brain to learn first rigurous mattematics and physics of a process and then to be introduced to various approximations and simplifications and why they can be applied on the concrete problem.
    Books like "Fitzgerald & Kingsley's Electric Machinery" that are highly recommended are of no help....
    My IQ is estimated 140+(deviation 15), Im generally good in mathematics/physics (considered a genius in the field of calculus/geometry), so Im not afraid of difficult literature.
    I hope someone can recomend me a book(probably a set of books).

    if you dont know of a book that could help me on this topic, but know some great lterature on other power engineering topics, i would be grateful if you recommended it.
    Im sorry for mistakes, english is not my first language
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2015
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 16, 2015 #2

    jim hardy

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    I'm not sure whether you are asking for books with more formulas or with more diagrams...

    My poor alleged brain must start with a physical picture and from that the formulas are pretty intuitive.

    I found this book really helpful, it was written while academia was still figuring out how to teach electrical theory and practice. I rescued from a library that was being demolished the 1901 edition, available here for reading

    and it's back in print now try a search.

    The style of writing is 19th century, but i'm a Melville fan so loved it. References to Steinmetz an Tesla are in present tense brcause they were contemporaries of the author.

    Good luck

    old jim
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2015
  4. Jun 17, 2015 #3
    Thx for answering Jim.
    I found out about this book yesterday when I was searching on this forum for books, unsatisfied with what I found I started this thread. Its interesting to find out how people were looking on el. machines more than a 100 years ago, but a lot of theory and solutions for practical EM problems were unknown, so...

    Few hours ago I found "The performance and design of direct current machines" by Albert Edmund Clayton and it has a promising start.
    For example: in the part where he explains the air gap reluctance, he immediately mentiones that for the flux distribution in inter-polar region no simple calculation is posible...."to determine the "fringing" effect much experimental work has been done, and F.W. Carter attacked the problem mathematically", he says that his mathematics have been verified experimentally and that most of designers use his results. He didn explaine in detail what Carter did, but thanks to his mentioning I searched for Carters work and found extremely scientific approach on this subject.
    I foud out that due to the fringing effect, magnetic flux in the air gap of electrical machines is reduced. This leads to enlarged effective air gap length. Currently, the Carter coefficient is applied to compensate the slot effects. This coefficient is calculated with respect to the slot dimensions and air gap length, using Carter formulas and corresponding curves. These curves are taken by solving the two dimensional Laplace equation for voltage, and cannot be accurate (errorless) completely. Nowadays, using FEM (finite element method) packages of numerical methods, slot effects on the air gap flux distribution are calculated carefully. Using the ANSYS package, these effects are studied. Using the results of these studies and comparing them with the Carter method, the Carter coefficient is modified.

    As an example of a good book I would mention "Introduction to Electrodynamics" - David Griffiths (with the exeption on divergence, curl and gradient explanation...he didnt even mention how to derive it, I was forced to search other sources, and the curl operator was nowhere to find so only after I derived it myself it was clear to me why they are even used in EM theory and Stocks and divergence theorem were intuitive)
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
  5. Jun 17, 2015 #4

    jim hardy

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    Aha so you are looking for better formulas...

    Understand that at my level it was a rare occasion to even meet people who worked at the level of sophistication you describe.
    I had the good fortune to meet and work briefly with two generator industry experts but that was unusual.

    That's the truth. I think interpoles weren't invented yet....and Steinmetz had just applied complex arithmetic to AC circuits...
    It's interesting to see how they struggled back then for words to explain concepts, and to realize just how much compression of information has gone into today's curricula. Exposition is a science of its own.

    Were i on a search like yours i'd peruse IEEE articles (you should join , student rate isn't prohibitive and your school library probably has access) and write to authors who strike you as promising.

    I found textbooks from the 1940's most useful, they had a balance of practical applications and comprehensible math.

    You sound like someone who might write such a book ---- best wishes to you, sir !

    old jim
  6. Jun 17, 2015 #5
    Thank you for quick answers
    Im surely going to search for IEEE articles of my interest and it would be a great help if u could give me some links.
    Its very dissapointing to be able to find 40+ lecture tutorial on semiconductor theory and pn junction on youtube, but nothing of simmilar lvl on el. machinery...

    And its nice that you mentioned Tesla. I feel very proud when i hear his name because we belong to the same nation(born 200 km away from his birthplace). It feels amazing to read a book that was written in time when The God of Lightning - Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest minds in modern history and the greatest inventor of all time, was doing his mindblowing experiments.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2015
  7. Jun 17, 2015 #6

    jim hardy

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    You'll also enjoy "Modern Jupiter " published by ASME. It's a biography of Steinmetz, the "other" genius.
  8. Jun 17, 2015 #7


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    Jim Jim Jim Jim Jim! If there were ever a time when I could honestly suspect there were people running around without a brain you would be one of the last people I would suspect to have the gray matter absent.
  9. Jun 17, 2015 #8

    jim hardy

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  10. Jun 18, 2015 #9
    I cannot find this book to download for free, if anyone knows where to get it free-post it here please, or if anyone has it in e form send to debelino@gmail.com.
  11. Jun 18, 2015 #10

    jim hardy

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    I think it's recent enough to be still under copyright.

    Abe books has it in paperback for under $15.
  12. Jul 5, 2015 #11
    See Ion Boldea books(3 books I looked at library found intresting-1. Electcrical Machine 2. Variable Speed Generators 3.EM analysis using FE). Then one IEEE book-Modeling and High performance control of Electrical Machine. another book by Salon on 'Finite Element Analysis of Electrical machine' is really good. Ion Boldea Book(3rd one) is also good on this topic.
  13. Jul 6, 2015 #12

    This is the book that introduced the ideas to me: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0073529540?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 It is not what I would call "rigorous." If you're really interested in trying to derive things from the Maxwell equations, it might be a good exercise to learn the basics and work backwards to the fundamental equations.

    Good luck to you. :oldsmile:
  14. Jul 6, 2015 #13

    Your discussion on carter coefficient is intresting and to the point...I have gone through it using some good papers quantitively...remind me next week as I have to search my report and papers if you need...IEEE papers are really worth to read on your specific intrest area.

  15. Jul 7, 2015 #14
    Sorry I have written wrong author for 3rd book in my post- Its not Ion Boldea on Electrical Machine Analysis,it's Nicola Bianchi book which I loved to read alongwith Salon Book. I know more books but all depends on what you like to read or learn so you have to scan through those books. If you are really want to discuss EM then in Linked-In there is group and some real experts from filed are there to comment.

    Best of Luck
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