Electromagnetic inductance -- Mutual inductance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of mutual inductance in electromagnetic systems, particularly focusing on the interactions between primary and secondary coils in inductive circuits. Participants explore the implications of changing currents and magnetic flux, as well as the application of Lenz's law and conservation of energy in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the process of changing current in the primary coil inducing an emf in the secondary coil, which in turn affects the primary coil, raising questions about the cyclical nature of this interaction and its implications for conservation of energy and Lenz's law.
  • Another participant asserts that the interaction is a continual process rather than a simple cause-and-effect loop, emphasizing that neither current nor magnetic flux can change instantaneously.
  • A third participant suggests that solving the problem requires setting up differential equations that account for both self and mutual inductance, noting that the complexity may vary depending on the coursework level and the coupling strength of the coils.
  • There is a mention of passive components that can couple signals in one direction only, which may complicate the understanding of mutual inductance in certain applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the interaction between the coils, with some emphasizing a continuous process while others explore the cyclical implications of induced emf. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of how these interactions align with Lenz's law and conservation of energy.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the analysis may depend on the assumptions made about the system, such as whether it is in steady state or under sinusoidal conditions, and the potential complexity introduced by weak coupling or specific circuit configurations.

dipankar.a511
I know that- The change in current of primary coil changes the magnetic flux linked with the secondary coil and this an emf will be induced in secondary coil (which also has an inductor in the circuit) so current grows in secondary coil and the current in secondary coil produces magnetic field.
Q.Is it correct to say that the growing current (inductor in the secondary will resist the change in current) in secondary coil will result in a change in magnetic flux (due to magnetic field of secondary coil) linked with primary coil and an emf will be induced by secondary coil in primary and this will continue so on and so forth like two mirrors opposing each other and making infinite images or will the cycle get over just at secondary coil. Is this reasoning flawed in terms of law of conservation of energy and lenz's law?
 
It's a continual process, not an X effects Y which then affects X which then affects Y, etc. Neither the current nor the magnetic field flux can increase in strength instantly.
 
Right, like Drakkith said. To solve it precisely, the trick is to set up the differential equations correctly from the beginning. (In the case of a spice simulation, this happens automatically, assuming you've set up your components correctly.) The differential equations will have terms for both self inductance and mutual inductance of the coils involved. Then a single solution leads to a closed-form answer.

By the way, depending on your level of coursework, you might not be expected to solve the differential equations in this manner. It's not especially critical in certain circumstances anyway, such as when the coupling is weak, or say, when the current through secondary coil isn't that much. So unless your coursework/instructor expects you solve the full differential equations, this may not be that important. Just keep it in mind for later if you study more advanced circuit theory.

On a different yet related note, while most simple transformers might couple symmetrically in either direction, there exist passive components out there such as "duplexers," "circulators," "isolators" and "directional couplers" that tend to couple the signal in one direction only, but not the reverse (or one port to another port, but not the same ports in reverse).
 
Last edited:
dipankar.a511 said:
I know that- The change in current of primary coil changes the magnetic flux linked with the secondary coil and this an emf will be induced in secondary coil (which also has an inductor in the circuit) so current grows in secondary coil and the current in secondary coil produces magnetic field.
Q.Is it correct to say that the growing current (inductor in the secondary will resist the change in current) in secondary coil will result in a change in magnetic flux (due to magnetic field of secondary coil) linked with primary coil and an emf will be induced by secondary coil in primary and this will continue so on and so forth like two mirrors opposing each other and making infinite images or will the cycle get over just at secondary coil. Is this reasoning flawed in terms of law of conservation of energy and lenz's law?
It is probably easiest to consider the situation under steady state sinusoidal conditions. You don't have to keep going backwards and forwards. Then Ep = Ip Zp + Is Zm
 

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