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Philipsmett
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electrons are repelled using the Pauli exclusion principle?
Philipsmett said:electrons are repelled using the Pauli exclusion principle?
Touching is electromagnetic repulsion between electrons or the Pauli exclusion principle? How do physicists distinguish between these effects?PeterDonis said:This is too vague to answer. What specific scenario are you thinking of?
Philipsmett said:When two atoms come into contact
Philipsmett said:is this electromagnetic repulsion between electrons or the Pauli exclusion principle?
PeterDonis said:the proof of the theorem given in the paper takes into account both electrostatic interactions and the Pauli exclusion principle
PeterDonis said:Another good paper on this topic is Lieb 1976:
http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~rajeev/phy246/lieb.pdf
Thanks for the information. According to the exclusion principle, the two electrons must interact directly, without the fundamental forces?PeterDonis said:It's also worth noting that "electrostatic interactions" is more than just repulsion between electrons, and "Pauli exclusion principle" is more than just electrons from neighboring atoms not occupying the same state. In each individual atom, the electrons cannot all occupy the same state; that's why we have the periodic table of the elements. And there are also attractive Coulomb forces between the atomic nuclei and the electrons (not just within the same atom), and repulsive Coulomb forces between the different atomic nuclei (which are largely screened by the electrons, and that also has to be taken into account).
Philipsmett said:According to the exclusion principle, the two electrons must interact directly, without the fundamental forces?
But how do you know that electron shells are repelled by electrostatic interaction? Maybe this is the principle of exclusion? Is there an experimental fact?PeterDonis said:No, the exclusion principle is not an "interaction". It's a constraint on the quantum state of any system consisting of multiple identical fermions. Its effects can appear to work similarly to "interactions", but that doesn't mean it's an interaction.
Well, just the carrier of these forces is not experimentally detected.Vanadium 50 said:So you don't believe in Coulomb's Law? Or rather, you believe it for the opposite sign attraction between electron and nucleus, but not the same sign repulsion between electrons?
Philipsmett said:Well, just the carrier of these forces is not experimentally detected.
I am talking about excitation in an electromagnetic field that generates electrons when they repel each other.Vanadium 50 said:Of course the carrier of the EM force, the photon, has been experimentally detected.
Philipsmett said:I am talking about excitation in an electromagnetic field that generates electrons when they repel each other.
I apologize for the wrong statement.Philipsmett said:I am talking about excitation in an electromagnetic field that generates electrons when they repel each other.
Philipsmett said:I apologize for the wrong statement.
I meant that, according to QFT, the electrons repulsed each other with virtual photons or generated excitation in an electromagnetic field that repelled them, but these excitations or virtual photons were not detected experimentally and therefore it is some kind of invisible force.
Virtual photons were not found experimentally, it's just mathematicsZapperZ said:Where did you get the idea that these are not "detected experimentally"? Have you even done a search of the literature?
Notice how we are trying to go one step forward but ended up going two steps back?
Zz.
Philipsmett said:Virtual photons were not found experimentally, it's just mathematics
Is it possible to say that there is electromagnetic force between electrons, and it is observed, but it is not known how this happens?ZapperZ said:Defined "not found experimentally". Do you think the Higgs was found "experimentally"? What do you think they actually detected? Do you think the Pauli Exclusion Principle was confirmed "experimentally"?
Zz.
Philipsmett said:Is it possible to say that there is electromagnetic force between electrons, and it is observed, but it is not known how this happens?
Philipsmett said:according to QFT, the electrons repulsed each other with virtual photons or generated excitation in an electromagnetic field
Electrons are subatomic particles that have a negative charge and are found orbiting the nucleus of an atom. They are one of the fundamental building blocks of matter.
The Pauli exclusion principle states that no two electrons in an atom can have the same set of quantum numbers. This means that each electron must have a unique combination of energy, spin, and orbital position within an atom.
The Pauli exclusion principle plays a crucial role in determining the electronic structure of atoms. It explains why electrons occupy different energy levels and how they arrange themselves in orbitals around the nucleus.
The Pauli exclusion principle is essential in understanding the chemical properties of elements and how they interact with each other. It helps explain the formation of chemical bonds and the stability of atoms and molecules.
There are a few exceptions to the Pauli exclusion principle, such as in the case of degenerate orbitals where two electrons with opposite spins can occupy the same orbital. Additionally, in certain high-energy environments, such as in nuclear reactions, the principle may not hold true.