Entropy change and reversible/irreversible processes

  • Thread starter Thread starter Erik Schildt
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Change Entropy
AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the entropy change for a mass thrown from a height, considering both the mass and the surroundings. It highlights the application of the equation dS=dQ/T, despite the irreversible nature of the processes involved. The potential energy of the mass is converted to internal energy in the surroundings, which is treated as an ideal reservoir. The entropy change of the surroundings is calculated as mgh/T, while the change in entropy of the mass is zero. The confusion arises from reconciling the first law of thermodynamics with the entropy calculations, emphasizing the importance of state functions in these processes.
Erik Schildt
Messages
1
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


A mass m is thrown from a height of h. Find the entropy change of the mass, the surroundings and the universe. The temperature of the surroundings is T.

Homework Equations


dS=dQ/T
ΔU=Q+W

The Attempt at a Solution


The main thing I don't understand in this question is how we even can apply dS=dQ/T to the surroundings and the mass since all processes are irreversible. I know that entropy is a state function and you can choose a reversible process between two states and get the same entropy change as in a irreversible process, provided that all quantities we use to calculate the entropy change are state functions. Take the free expansion as an example, we can't use dS=dQ/T to calculate the entropy change since it's a irreversible process and Q isn't a state function, we have to use the central equation which only dependes on state functions. From the solution to this problem, which I've seen, it seems that dS=dQ/T was used. The entropy change of the surroundings is mgh/T, but the first law gives us Q=0 since the change in internal energy and the work the ground does is the same. I don't understand how both are true. The entropy change of the mass is zero, which I can understand if dS=dQ/T can be applied somehow.

Thanks in advance!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Here's what I get out of this problem statement. The potential energy of the mass is dissipated in this irreversible collision (or collisions if the mass bounces until is stops), and is converted to internal energy of the mass and the surroundings. Actually, the internal energy of the mass changes virtually not at all, and essentially all the energy is transferred to the surroundings. The surroundings is being treated as an ideal reservoir, with infinite capacity to absorb heat without its temperature changing. So the change in entropy of the surroundings is Q/T, where Q = mgh.
 
  • Like
Likes BvU
Thread 'Collision of a bullet on a rod-string system: query'
In this question, I have a question. I am NOT trying to solve it, but it is just a conceptual question. Consider the point on the rod, which connects the string and the rod. My question: just before and after the collision, is ANGULAR momentum CONSERVED about this point? Lets call the point which connects the string and rod as P. Why am I asking this? : it is clear from the scenario that the point of concern, which connects the string and the rod, moves in a circular path due to the string...
Back
Top