Estimation and validation of water pressure at nozzle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on estimating and validating the pressure of water exiting a nozzle, focusing on the discrepancy between estimated and measured values. Participants explore the theoretical and experimental aspects of dynamic pressure and momentum balance in fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • The initial estimation of dynamic pressure is calculated using the equation q = 1/2 * ρ * u², where ρ is the density of water and u is the liquid velocity derived from flow rate and nozzle area.
  • The validation method involves measuring the jet force with a force gauge, assuming the jet diameter matches the nozzle diameter, leading to a calculated pressure based on jet force and nozzle area.
  • One participant suggests that the estimation methodology may be incorrect and introduces the concept of the Macroscopic Momentum Balance equation as a potential explanation for the observed discrepancy.
  • Another participant explains that the pressure measured at the center of the jet may not account for the distribution of pressure over a larger area, indicating that the force exerted by the jet on the wall is derived from a momentum balance, resulting in a force that is twice the stagnation flow estimate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the estimation methodology, with some suggesting it is incorrect while others provide explanations that align with the observed measurement discrepancies. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to estimating the pressure.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in the estimation approach, particularly regarding assumptions about pressure distribution and the area over which the jet force is applied. There are unresolved aspects related to the application of the Macroscopic Momentum Balance equation.

Tomtom123
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ρ

I am trying to estimate and validate the pressure of water exiting a nozzle. For an unknown reason, the validation is consistently twice as high as the estimation.

Here the approach:
Estimation:
I am using the dynamic pressure equation for the estimation:
q = 1/2 * ρ * u2

where,
q = dynamic pressure
ρ = density of water (997 kg/m3)
u = liquid velocity
The velocity is calculated based on the known nozzle diameter and the flow rate (u = flow rate / nozzle area)

Validation:
The measurement is performed by simply measuring the jet force with a force gauge in horizontal orientation and in short distance (<1cm) - see the schematic. The assumption is that the jet diameter is the same as the nozzle.
q_val = jet force / nozzle area.

As mentioned before, in varying measurements the validation is close to being twice of the estimation data.
Is there anything I'm missing here?
 

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You are not approaching this correctly. Your experimental result is exactly what would be expected. Are you familiar with the Macroscopic Momentum Balance equation?
 
Hi Chestermiller,

Unfortunately, not. Can you please help me understand where my estimation methodology is incorrect?

Thanks
 
Tomtom123 said:
Hi Chestermiller,

Unfortunately, not. Can you please help me understand where my estimation methodology is incorrect?

Thanks
You probably have the correct answer for the pressure only at the very center of the jet striking the wall. But the axial flow velocity is not stopped completely over an area equal to the jet coming out of the nozzle. The pressure from the jet hitting the wall is distributed over a much larger area. The way to get the force that the jet exerts on the wall is to perform a momentum balance on the jet. For this system, the macroscopic momentum balance on the jet in the axial direction reduces to $$F=0-\dot{m}v$$where F is the axial force that the wall exerts on the fluid in the positive x direction, ##\dot{m}=\rho v A## is the mass flow rate of the jet, A is its cross section area, and the right hand side of the equation represents the rate of change of axial momentum of the jet. So the force that the wall exerts on the jet is: $$F=-\rho v^2A$$. And the force that the jet exerts on the wall is ##+\rho v^2A##. This is twice your stagnation flow estimate, but is consistent with your observed value of the force.
 

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