Evanescent light waves, energy flow and tunneling

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of evanescent light waves, particularly in the context of frustrated total internal reflection (FTIR) and energy transfer mechanisms. Participants explore the nature of evanescent waves, their classification, and the implications for energy flow and wave production at interfaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how evanescent waves, which are said to not transfer net energy, can produce another wave at a second interface and what occurs with energy transfer at that moment.
  • There is a debate on whether evanescent waves should be categorized as standing or traveling waves, with some arguing that the traditional categories are not useful.
  • Concerns are raised about conservation of energy when an evanescent wave produces a traveling wave at the second interface, with suggestions that reflection may decrease due to changes in the wave-function structure.
  • Some participants propose that while evanescent waves do not propagate energy, they can still excite atoms or molecules at the second interface, leading to fluorescence in certain contexts, such as FTIR fluorescent microscopy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of evanescent waves and the implications for energy transfer. There is no consensus on how to categorize these waves or the mechanisms of energy flow involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the behavior of evanescent waves may depend on specific setups and conditions, which could affect the interpretation of energy transfer and wave categorization.

Joker93
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In the full internal reflection case where we have a refracted evanescent wave, If another object is nearby, then we could have wave tunneling phenomenon(frustrated total internal reflection).

1) So, how can the evanescent wave which does not transfer any net energy produce another wave at the second interface? What happens with the transfer of energy before the evanescent wave reaches the second interface and what happens to it at the exact time that it reaches it? Does energy spontaneously flow from one interface to another to produce the wave at the second interface?
2) Is evanescent light wave a standing or traveling wave?
3) When the evanescent wave reaches the second interface and produces another traveling wave, then does anything happen to the reflected wave of the first interface in order to not have problem with conservation of energy or there is no such problem(and why)? And it something does happen to the reflected wave, does it happen spontaneously(when the evanescent reaches the second interface)?
4) If energy is not transferred by the evanescent waves, then how does its EM wave excite the atoms(or molecules or whatever) at the second interface?
 
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Adam Landos said:
1) So, how can the evanescent wave which does not transfer any net energy produce another wave at the second interface?
It does not transfer net energy if it is fully evanescent and time-independent. In your setup it is not.
Adam Landos said:
2) Is evanescent light wave a standing or traveling wave?
I don't think those two categories are useful here.
Adam Landos said:
3) When the evanescent wave reaches the second interface and produces another traveling wave, then does anything happen to the reflected wave of the first interface in order to not have problem with conservation of energy or there is no such problem(and why)?
Sure, reflection will go down a bit. Why: because the structure of the wave-function changes. That change spreads at most with the speed of light, of course, so short light pulses can lead to a different response than longer ones.
 
mfb said:
It does not transfer net energy if it is fully evanescent and time-independent. In your setup it is not.
I don't think those two categories are useful here.
Sure, reflection will go down a bit. Why: because the structure of the wave-function changes. That change spreads at most with the speed of light, of course, so short light pulses can lead to a different response than longer ones.
Thanks for the reply! But, how would you categorize evanescent waves and why are you saying that in my setup it is not an evanescent wave?
 
Adam Landos said:
But, how would you categorize evanescent waves
I would call them evanescent waves.
Adam Landos said:
and why are you saying that in my setup it is not an evanescent wave?
They transfer energy.
 
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Adam Landos said:
In the full internal reflection case where we have a refracted evanescent wave, If another object is nearby, then we could have wave tunneling phenomenon(frustrated total internal reflection).

1) So, how can the evanescent wave which does not transfer any net energy produce another wave at the second interface? What happens with the transfer of energy before the evanescent wave reaches the second interface and what happens to it at the exact time that it reaches it? Does energy spontaneously flow from one interface to another to produce the wave at the second interface?
2) Is evanescent light wave a standing or traveling wave?
3) When the evanescent wave reaches the second interface and produces another traveling wave, then does anything happen to the reflected wave of the first interface in order to not have problem with conservation of energy or there is no such problem(and why)? And it something does happen to the reflected wave, does it happen spontaneously(when the evanescent reaches the second interface)?
4) If energy is not transferred by the evanescent waves, then how does its EM wave excite the atoms(or molecules or whatever) at the second interface?

My responses:

2) Evanescent waves are non-propagating waves, the surfaces of constant phase are not normal to the propagation direction, but parallel to it. They are not standing waves, either. Mathematically, evanescent waves do not have the form exp(-ikz) but exp(-kz).

1) Energy does not propagate in an evanescent wave; the analogy for FTIR is quantum tunneling through a barrier. The wavefunction is analogous (exp(-ikz) vs. exp(-kz)) as well.

3) FTIR does involve energy transfer from object 1 to object 2, but it's non-radiative energy transfer. The intensity of light in object 1 is decreased in proportion to the amount of energy transferred to object 2.

4) Are you referring to FTIR fluorescent microscopy? The excitation field is extended into the sample via evanescent waves, acceptor atoms are excited by the excitation field and fluoresce; this fluorescence is a propagating wave that is collected by the microscope objective.

Does this help?
 
Andy Resnick said:
My responses:

2) Evanescent waves are non-propagating waves, the surfaces of constant phase are not normal to the propagation direction, but parallel to it. They are not standing waves, either. Mathematically, evanescent waves do not have the form exp(-ikz) but exp(-kz).

1) Energy does not propagate in an evanescent wave; the analogy for FTIR is quantum tunneling through a barrier. The wavefunction is analogous (exp(-ikz) vs. exp(-kz)) as well.

3) FTIR does involve energy transfer from object 1 to object 2, but it's non-radiative energy transfer. The intensity of light in object 1 is decreased in proportion to the amount of energy transferred to object 2.

4) Are you referring to FTIR fluorescent microscopy? The excitation field is extended into the sample via evanescent waves, acceptor atoms are excited by the excitation field and fluoresce; this fluorescence is a propagating wave that is collected by the microscope objective.

Does this help?
Yes, thank you for your answer!
 

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