Factoring a 3rd order polynomial

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factoring of a 4th order polynomial, specifically the polynomial (jw)^{4}+7(jw)^{3}+59(jw)^2+98(jw)+630=0. Participants explore various approaches to rewrite the polynomial in a more manageable form, drawing on previous examples and attempts at solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial attempt to factor the polynomial, expressing difficulty in achieving a desired form.
  • Another participant suggests a potential factorization approach, proposing to divide (w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) by (14 - w^2).
  • A later reply provides a specific factorization result, suggesting the expression can be rewritten as -(14-w^{2})(w^{2}-45)+7jw(14-w^{2})=0.
  • There is a question regarding the selection of a value for \omega in the context of designing a controller using Ziegler-Nichols second method, specifically whether to choose \omega=\sqrt{14} or \omega=\sqrt{45}.
  • Participants correct each other’s expressions, noting a small error in the factorization approach regarding the coefficient of the jw term.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to factor the polynomial, and multiple competing views and methods are presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the correctness of their factorization attempts, and there are unresolved steps in the proposed methods. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the polynomial factoring process.

rowardHoark
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Factoring a 4th order polynomial

Homework Statement



Example:
(jw)^{3}+6(jw)^{2}+5jw+30=0 can be re-written into 6(5-w^{2})+jw(5-w^{2}). The fact that there are two identical (5-w^{2}) is a desirable outcome. Imaginary number j=\sqrt{-1} becomes -1 when raised to the power of 2.

Homework Equations



The problem is to transform (jw)^{4}+7(jw)^{3}+59(jw)^2+98(jw)+630=0 in a similar manner.

The Attempt at a Solution



So far I have been unsuccessful.

w^{4}-7jw^{3}-59w^{2}+98jw+630=0

(w^{4}-59w^{2})+7(-jw^{3}+14jw+90)=0
 
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rowardHoark said:

Homework Statement



Example:
(jw)^{3}+6(jw)^{2}+5jw+30=0 can be re-written into 6(5-w^{2})+jw(5-w^{2}). The fact that there are two identical (5-w^{2}) is a disirable outcome. Imaginary number j=\sqrt{-1} becomes -1 when raised to the power of 2.

Homework Equations



The problem is to transform (jw)^{4}+7(jw)^{3}+59(jw)^2+98(jw)+630=0 in a similar manner.

The Attempt at a Solution



So far I have been unsuccessful.

w^{4}-7jw^{3}-59w^{2}+98jw+630=0

(w^{4}-59w^{2})+7(-jw^{3}+14jw+90)=0

Try

(w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) + jw(14 - w^2)

Then divide (w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) by (14 - w^2)
 


CEL said:
Try

(w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) + jw(14 - w^2)

Then divide (w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) by (14 - w^2)

Thank you, CEL.

The answer is -(14-w^{2})(w^{2}-45)+7jw(14-w^{2})=0

If designing a controller using Ziegler-Nichols second method, would I pick \omega=\sqrt{14} or \omega=\sqrt{45} as my value to calculare P_{cr}=\frac{2\Pi}{\omega}?
 


CEL said:
Try

(w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) + jw(14 - w^2)

Then divide (w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) by (14 - w^2)

There's one tiny error here:

(w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) + jw(14 - w^2)

should be:

(w^4 - 59 w^2 + 630) + 7jw(14 - w^2)

A good systematic method for problems like this is shown in the attachment.
 

Attachments

  • Nichols.png
    Nichols.png
    5.3 KB · Views: 518

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