Finding the function from ds=[2/(1-r^2)]√ (dr^2+(rd∅)^2)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the function related to the distance in a "rapid space" defined by the equation ds=[2/(1-r^2)]√ (dr^2+(rd∅)^2). Participants explore the application of the Euler-Lagrange equation to demonstrate that the shortest distance from the origin to any point is a straight line, while addressing the concept of rapidity space and the equations of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the concept of rapid space and attempts to apply the Euler-Lagrange equation to derive the shortest path, questioning how integration leads to a straight line.
  • Another participant suggests that showing ##\ddot{\phi}=0## is sufficient, referencing the Lagrangian formulation and the equations of motion.
  • A participant requests clarification on the previous point, indicating confusion about the assertion regarding ##\ddot{\phi}=0##.
  • Another participant admits uncertainty about the extremization process and questions whether it aligns with the original inquiry, suggesting that their earlier assertion may not be correct.
  • Reference to external material is made, with a suggestion to consult a specific section on geodesics for clarity.
  • A later reply indicates that the reference provided was helpful in understanding the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and uncertainty regarding the application of the Euler-Lagrange equation and the concept of rapid space. There is no consensus on the sufficiency of the conditions presented or the correctness of the assertions made.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the extremization process and the relationship between the equations of motion and the original problem. The discussion reflects ongoing exploration rather than settled conclusions.

nafizamin
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in relativity theory, in a certain "rapid space" the distance between two neighboring points is given by-
ds=[2/(1-r^2)]√ (dr^2+(rd∅)^2)

(considering a 2D space )

use the euler lagrange equation to show that the shortest distance from origin to any point is straight line.

attempt-

i don't know what's a rapid space, but i took the function in the euler lagrange equation as
f= [2/(1-r^2)]√ (+(r∅')^2) [∅'=d∅/dr]


then since ∂f/∂∅=0, so ∂f/∂∅'= const= r^2/ [(1-r^2)]√ (dr^2+(rd∅)^2)]


but how does the integration lead to a straight line ? could anybody do that for me ?

p.s: this isn't a homework !
 
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rapidity space?
http://abacus.bates.edu/~msemon/RhodesSemonFinal.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think all you need is to show that ##\ddot{\phi}=0##. With ##L=(1/2)(g_{rr}\dot{r}^2+g_{\phi\phi}\dot{\phi}^2)##. ##m## is set to 1 since it cancels out of the EOM.

From ##\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\phi}}\right)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi}## is evident that ##\ddot{\phi}=0##.
 
Last edited:
Mentz114 said:
I think all you need is to show that ##\ddot{\phi}=0##. With ##L=(1/2)(g_{rr}\dot{r}^2+g_{\phi\phi}\dot{\phi}^2)##. ##m## is set to 1 since it cancels out of the EOM.

From ##\frac{d}{dt}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\phi}}\right)=\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi}## is evident that ##\ddot{\phi}=0##.


i didn't understand. could you elaborate, please ?
 
nafizamin said:
i didn't understand. could you elaborate, please ?

Which piece did you not understand ?

I have to admit that the extremization here is to find equations of motion and I don't know if that corresponds to what you are trying to do. Also, my assertion about the sufficiency of ##\ddot{\phi}=0## is probably not right.

I need help too. Maybe someone else can put us right.

Did you read the reference given by robphy ? The section on geodesics may be relevant.
 
See page 949 in Robphy's link. The derivation given is clear and simple.
 
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yes found it on rolphy. thank you everyone.
 

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