Finding the Right Path to a Successful Engineering Career: Victor's Story

[energypassion9]

Hello everybody,
I am Victor Moussalli, 17 years old, just starting grade 12 of high school. My passion is energy efficiency. The only types of engineering that I like are: environmental, energy, and electrical. I want to know what is the best path to take; university or not, to guarantee a good job later on as many of my older buddies are now struggling to find jobs despite their engineering majors.
Thank you,
Victor Moussalli

 

[caldweab]

Hello everybody,

I am Victor Moussalli, 17 years old, just starting grade 12 of high school. My passion is energy efficiency. The only types of engineering that I like are: environmental, energy, and electrical. I want to know what is the best path to take; university or not, to guarantee a good job later on as many of my older buddies are now struggling to find jobs despite their engineering majors.

Thank you,

Victor Moussalli

I would recommend mechanical engineering or electrical engineering

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

Based upon history, Caldweab's advice has been a good bet. To build better energy efficiency, you need to know how things are built and then how to build them better.

Engineering in general is a good bet. Society will need engineers. However, right now, companies world-wide are experiencing an economic slump of the sort that hasn't been seen in many decades. Engineers get hired sooner as recessions end, so if you're looking to get hired in four or five years, this isn't a bad bet.

But it is still a bet. I don't have a crystal ball. If I had the ability to say with good certainty that your selection is guaranteed to work, I'd make Warren Buffet (the billionaire investor) look like a poor man. But I don't. And neither does anyone else.

 

[F=qE]

I agree with the above. Electrical and mechanical engineering are great.

I know some schools have a new program called 'energy engineering'. I just graduated from one that added that program in like 2012. Based on career prospects, id think mechanical and electrical are better.

 

[energypassion9]

I would recommend mechanical engineering or electrical engineering

Hello, thank you for your answer. I've had people tell me that one was better than the other. I'm still confused by which one would work best with energy?
Thanks

 

[caldweab]

Hello, thank you for your answer. I've had people tell me that one was better than the other. I'm still confused by which one would work best with energy?

Thanks

Depends on what side of energy you want to be on? If you want to generate energy go with mechanical engineering, if you want to work on transmission and storage then go with electrical engineering. I wanted to work with power generation and fuel sources so I chose nuclear engineering which is actually a sub field of mechanical engineering and the core curriculum is mechanical engineering as well. I will then get a MS in mechanical engineering with a focus in energy systems or mass and heat transfer

 

[energypassion9]

I want to generate energy (and expand it) and work in this field. So I should do mechanical then specialize in energy?Any university suggestions?

 

[energypassion9]

What do you guys advise me to do if I want to work in energy?
Major in energy
Major in EE
Major in ME
Major in EE,minor in energy
Major in ME,minor in energy
Major in ME,minor in EE,specialization energy
Major in EE,minor in ME,specialization energy
Major in physics,minor in maths,THEN any of the above.
None(in this case please suggest for me..)
Please answer with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
I need an urgent answer because I am lost.

 

[caldweab]

What do you guys advise me to do if I want to work in energy?
Major in energy
Major in EE
Major in ME
Major in EE,minor in energy
Major in ME,minor in energy
Major in ME,minor in EE,specialization energy
Major in EE,minor in ME,specialization energy
Major in physics,minor in maths,THEN any of the above.
None(in this case please suggest for me..)
Please answer with 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
I need an urgent answer because I am lost.

Major in mechanical engineering. I don't know of any schools that offer a minor in energy. Actually I take that back there are some schools that offer studies in energy my own university does but only at the masters level. I say go ME, no matter how you're generating power you'll always have some mechanical devices designed to generate this energy and turn it into a usable form, i.e. Electricity.

 

[Timo]

I say go ME, no matter how you're generating power you'll always have some mechanical devices designed to generate this energy and turn it into a usable form, i.e. Electricity.

I am not an expert on engineering by a long shot. But I would imagine the mechanical engineering tasks in solar energy are somewhat limited to things like designing a robust case for the panels. That is perhaps not exactly what fuels the OPs "passion" for energy.

@energypassion9: As a side-note: I think it is not very common to put progress in energy production under the label "energy efficiency". In my experience, "energy efficiency" usually related to various improvements on the consumption side, most notably reduced energy consumption.

 

[caldweab]

I am not an expert on engineering by a long shot. But I would imagine the mechanical engineering tasks in solar energy are somewhat limited to things like designing a robust case for the panels. That is perhaps not exactly what fuels the OPs "passion" for energy.
@energypassion9: As a side-note: I think it is not very common to put progress in energy production under the label "energy efficiency". In my experience, "energy efficiency" usually related to various improvements on the consumption side, most notably reduced energy consumption.

Not really. Engineers design and develop the entire systems that are used. The physics and science behind the systems are developed by scientist. Engineers take that theory and science and build something useable. Likewise if you go to a power plant you don't see a physicist running a reactor or maintaining it, engineers do that as well.

 

[energypassion9]

Major in mechanical engineering. I don't know of any schools that offer a minor in energy. Actually I take that back there are some schools that offer studies in energy my own university does but only at the masters level. I say go ME, no matter how you're generating power you'll always have some mechanical devices designed to generate this energy and turn it into a usable form, i.e. Electricity.

Do you think ME alone is the 'best' path to be able to have maximum chance to work in the energy efficiency field?
Thanks

 

[energypassion9]

I am not an expert on engineering by a long shot. But I would imagine the mechanical engineering tasks in solar energy are somewhat limited to things like designing a robust case for the panels. That is perhaps not exactly what fuels the OPs "passion" for energy.
@energypassion9: As a side-note: I think it is not very common to put progress in energy production under the label "energy efficiency". In my experience, "energy efficiency" usually related to various improvements on the consumption side, most notably reduced energy consumption.

What do you think is the best path if I want to actually work in reduced energy consumption?
I didn't get your point (after you said as a side note)
Thanks

 

[Timo]

Not really. Engineers design and develop the entire systems that are used. The physics and science behind the systems are developed by scientist. Engineers take that theory and science and build something useable. Likewise if you go to a power plant you don't see a physicist running a reactor or maintaining it, engineers do that as well.

I apparently misunderstood your post I referred to, then. The context I was replying to was that amonst all sub-fields of engineering, mechanical engineering is the one to go without a doubt because all energy generation systems require mechanical engineering (you must admit your post can be interpreted this way). I wasn't aware that natural science was still an option at this point. I of course agree with the statement that natural scientists are not as involved in the field as engineers.

 

[Timo]

I didn't get your point (after you said as a side note).

My point is that
- in your first post, you said your passion is "energy efficiency"
- later, you said you want "to generate energy"

All I said is that if you want "to generate energy", then calling it "energy efficiency" may mislead the people you speak to. They might interpret "energy efficiency" as referring to efficient use of energy, not efficient generation of energy. Not a big point. But I found it worth mentioning, since the two statements seemed a bit contradictory to me. And more importantly: It might to others.

 

[energypassion9]

My point is that

- in your first post, you said your passion is "energy efficiency"

- later, you said you want "to generate energy"
All I said is that if you want "to generate energy", then calling it "energy efficiency" may mislead the people you speak to. They might interpret "energy efficiency" as referring to efficient use of energy, not efficient generation of energy. Not a big point. But I found it worth mentioning, since the two statements seemed a bit contradictory to me. And more importantly: It might to others.

Yes sure. It is important to mention it,thanks.. The fact that all the energy topic interests me is why I keep saying differents parts of it.. I want to work in anything in energy, I don't really know which path to take and I need urgent help:(

 

[Timo]

As another note not directly answering your question but possibly interesting for you (maybe obvious, maybe not): Energy is not only electricity. In fact, the largest shares of energy usage are non-electric mobility (cars, planes, ...) and heating. The possibly most exciting future development prospected is the merge of the energy fields by technologies like eletric cars and heat pumps.

 

[jim hardy]

I am not an expert on engineering by a long shot. But I would imagine the mechanical engineering tasks in solar energy are somewhat limited to things like designing a robust case for the panels. That is perhaps not exactly what fuels the OPs "passion" for energy.

hardly.

Practical solar just preheats feedwater for a fossil boiler, thereby reducing fuel consumption by whatever is the solar input.
That way the utility can still use the plant to make power at night instead of having all that investment sit idle fourteen hours a day.
So the mechanical side is pumps, heat exchangers, fluid systems, thermodynamics, turbines, - in short a mechanical engineer's paradise.
http://www.ccj-online.com/2q-2010/integrating-solar/
http://www.laurenec.com/news/IPR_0811_Lauren_Email.pdf
http://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/parabolic_trough.cfm

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/images/photo_segs_power_plant.jpg

 

[Timo]

Practical solar just preheats feedwater for a fossil boiler, thereby reducing fuel consumption by whatever is the solar input.

I was thinking of photovoltaics when I said "solar". But it's a good input to mention that PV is not the only way to use direct solar power.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

hardly.

Practical solar just preheats feedwater for a fossil boiler, thereby reducing fuel consumption by whatever is the solar input.
That way the utility can still use the plant to make power at night instead of having all that investment sit idle fourteen hours a day.
So the mechanical side is pumps, heat exchangers, fluid systems, thermodynamics, turbines, - in short a mechanical engineer's paradise.
http://www.ccj-online.com/2q-2010/integrating-solar/
http://www.laurenec.com/news/IPR_0811_Lauren_Email.pdf
http://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/parabolic_trough.cfm

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/images/photo_segs_power_plant.jpg

Mr. Hardy makes a very important point: Most of our experience with power generation using PV is very limited in scale. However, we have extensive experience working with steam turbines and solar energy is a great way to heat (or preheat) water for steam.

Another possibility that you did not mention is very near and dear to my heart: Control Systems Engineering. Basically Control Systems Engineers are Engineers with a bit more emphasis on the mathematics of control theory (Laplace transforms, advanced differential equations, linear algebra, etc.) and materials (what sort of packing material should you use with a valve that will be exposed to 550C steam?).

Control Engineers are as close to the issue as possible without actually being an operator. Basically, they design the control algorithms and the process so that the goals are achievable and consistent. The control systems are the actual methods by which plants save energy, start up more rapidly and shut down more safely while reducing waste.

And yes, I'm biased. I'm a control systems engineer.

 

[caldweab]

Do you think ME alone is the 'best' path to be able to have maximum chance to work in the energy efficiency field?
Thanks

Yes. As my hardy explained power generation uses a lot of thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid dynamics coupled with things like turbines, pumps and heat exchangers. All of that is mechanical engineering. It does not matter what the furnace is, take for example a nuclear power station where the furnace is nuclear energy, the system still has to be designed using thermodynamics, heat transfer, and fluid dynamics. Even if you decide you want to work on new methods of power generation you'll still need those concepts. We generate energy in the form of heat and then we use mechanical devices to transform this energy into useable forms. Someone said something about energy used in transportation, while it's true that those particular applications use heat energy they still use the same devices. In fact the radiator in your car is a condenser. What does it do? It dumps excess heat, and condenses steam back to water to recirculate through your engine. Where does that come from? Thermodynamics. Nuclear power plants also use condensers and they do the exact same thing. So you see it does not matter what you plan to use the energy generated for

 

[energypassion9]

As another note not directly answering your question but possibly interesting for you (maybe obvious, maybe not): Energy is not only electricity. In fact, the largest shares of energy usage are non-electric mobility (cars, planes, ...) and heating. The possibly most exciting future development prospected is the merge of the energy fields by technologies like eletric cars and heat pumps.

Yep, thanks for pointing this out;)

 

[energypassion9]

Will this lead to work in the energy field where I will be generating energy or anything?
Thanks for your reply it really helped:)

 

[Astronuc]

Will this lead to work in the energy field where I will be generating energy or anything?
Thanks for your reply it really helped:)

Will what lead to work? In order to design and construct an energy system, one needs a basic understanding of the system. Designing and constructing an electrical generation system requires knowledge in the disciplines of mechanical and electrical engineering, but also civil/structural engineering.

Other than PV, which requires knowledge of semiconductor, which could be obtained through a program in EE or Engineering Physics, or perhaps Physics, most systems start with transforming mechanical energy from a working fluid, e.g., wind turbine converts wind energy into rotational kinetic energy of the turbine, a hydro turbine converts the flow of water into rotational kinetic energy of the water turbine, and a steam or gas turbine converts the mechanical energy in flowing steam or gas to the rotational kinetic energy of a steam or gas turbine. So energy generation often starts with extracting/converting/transforming energy from a working fluid to rotational kinetic energy of a shaft.

The shaft usually drives a rotator to which are attached magnets, and it is the rotating (time-varying) magnetic field that induces a voltage/current that is the electrical energy. That's where the electrical engineering enters the picture. One may study electromechanics and control theory in EE.

For any energy generation system, maximizing efficiency is desirable, but it is perhaps more critical for systems using finite resources, such as fossil fuel and nuclear, simply because such resources would be depleted over time. On the other hand, for wind and hydro, which are indirect solar resources, maximizing thermodynamic efficiency maybe less critical, although it is still desirable.

Maximizing efficiency of direct solar systems, e.g., solar thermal and PV, is desirable from an economic/cost perspective. Ideally one gets more energy for less material/cost. A limiting factor for direct solar systems is the land or surface area required to produce a given amount of energy. There is also the consideration that solar is not available at night, or during cloudy weather, so an alternative source is needed, or some of the daily energy generation must be stored to cover the time when direct solar is not available.

Besides thermodynamic efficiency, there are considerations for reliability (minimize wear and tear) and availability (how much of the time: daily, weekly, monthly, seasonally, . . . is the system producing energy, as opposed to shutdown or repair, or unable to generate due to lack of the primary energy source).

Various utilities and nations are expanding the use of renewable energy systems, so there are career opportunities available.

 

[energypassion9]

I thank you for this great answer!
I was wondering, what do you advise me to do from choices 1 to 9? I really need your help!
Thank you a million times.

 

[energypassion9]

Yes. As my hardy explained power generation uses a lot of thermodynamics, heat transfer, fluid dynamics coupled with things like turbines, pumps and heat exchangers. All of that is mechanical engineering. It does not matter what the furnace is, take for example a nuclear power station where the furnace is nuclear energy, the system still has to be designed using thermodynamics, heat transfer, and fluid dynamics. Even if you decide you want to work on new methods of power generation you'll still need those concepts. We generate energy in the form of heat and then we use mechanical devices to transform this energy into useable forms. Someone said something about energy used in transportation, while it's true that those particular applications use heat energy they still use the same devices. In fact the radiator in your car is a condenser. What does it do? It dumps excess heat, and condenses steam back to water to recirculate through your engine. Where does that come from? Thermodynamics. Nuclear power plants also use condensers and they do the exact same thing. So you see it does not matter what you plan to use the energy generated for

Yes, I got your point.Thanks. The problem is that I am still getting mixed opinions and can't make a choice!

 

[jim hardy]

So much depends on your own interests and abilities.

I struggle with math but have always had a knack for things electronic and mechanical.
So for me a career with a company that operates machinery was a perfect match.

If you are always fixing things around the house look toward an operating industry like electric utility , airline, railroad, or a company that does mining or resource extraction like oil exploration.

If you are a lover of math, consider automatic controls.

Engineering majors all take pretty much the same math, physics, fluids and introductory thermo. So you have a couple more years to decide what courses interest you.We don't know you at all
so best i can say is
when are you the happiest doing something? Look toward an industry that does that.

My best friend in junior high school loved to fish. He now runs a charterboat in Key Largo Florida.
My college roommate loved to organize and orchestrate projects. He now runs a consulting company in mechanical engineering field.

But both of them started out with humble positions and learned their fields bottom up, that is they "Earned their Stripes".

 

[energypassion9]

So much depends on your own interests and abilities.

I struggle with math but have always had a knack for things electronic and mechanical.
So for me a career with a company that operates machinery was a perfect match.

If you are always fixing things around the house look toward an operating industry like electric utility , airline, railroad, or a company that does mining or resource extraction like oil exploration.

If you are a lover of math, consider automatic controls.

Engineering majors all take pretty much the same math, physics, fluids and introductory thermo. So you have a couple more years to decide what courses interest you.We don't know you at all
so best i can say is
when are you the happiest doing something? Look toward an industry that does that.

My best friend in junior high school loved to fish. He now runs a charterboat in Key Largo Florida.
My college roommate loved to organize and orchestrate projects. He now runs a consulting company in mechanical engineering field.

But both of them started out with humble positions and learned their fields bottom up, that is they "Earned their Stripes".

Can't someone learn to love something?I think it is because of the teachers that one may love or not a subject.
Thanks for the advice

 

[energypassion9]

Anyone?

 

[jim hardy]

Can't someone learn to love something?I think it is because of the teachers that one may love or not a subject.
...Anyone?

i don't see why not. We feel good when we accomplish things or we get a deeper understanding of a subject..
So anything that promotes that sort of 'good vibrations' from an accomplishment
or makes us more aware of the world around us, ie growth,
is a field we can come to love.

I was never at all interested in art until 1984 when i stumbled into a show of Bouguereau paintings.
They were so detailed and expressive of strong feelings that i looked up the myths on which several were based.
That exposed me to Edith Hamilton's Mythology.
The stories Abduction of Psyche and Orestes Pursued by the Furies both caused me to do a lot of introspection and come to understand my troubles a lot better, and grow out of them.
To this day when going someplace i check to see if a local art museum has a Bouguereau on display and if so i make a point to go see it.

So - as they say, "when the student is ready a teacher will appear".

Is it the teachers that cause you to love a subject ? I don't think so, they just expose you to it.
If it meshes with your psyche you'll love it.
But it may be that you have to be shown.

The Abduction of Psyche by William-Adolphe Bouguereau

 

[energypassion9]

So we love something because we are born to love it? I can't for example learn to love to be a surgeon and be a millionaire out of it?
Yep, painting resembles a very very popular one, same design, I think it's called Moses.
Thanks for the help

 

[jim hardy]

So we love something because we are born to love it?

yep.

I can't for example learn to love to be a surgeon and be a millionaire out of it?

nope. You could however learn to be a surgeon and see if you love it.

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

OK, here's my take:

I have been fascinated with radios since at least the age of five. I KNEW I wanted to do something that involved radios. Here I am, more than four decades later, and I'm still fascinated with radio. However, my work has moved to other things: Control systems, SCADA, and water treatment. However, I still dabble with ham radio from time to time.

Your work does not have to be precisely the things you love. It can be something that just pays the bills. And really, I rather like the work I do. I still get to play with radios and that sort of thing here and there. But my interests have broadened. I also like to fly. I always seek a window seat when I travel on airliners, and I still enjoy flying, even when I have to file an instrument flight plan to get through some gooey weather.

You will find that doing the things you love also involves doing a lot of things you might not like as much. Life is like that. If you only did those things you love doing, you'd tire of it eventually. You should always be ready to branch out to do other things. I took up photography, beer brewing, archery and shooting sports, being a shade tree mechanic, camping, fishing, and many more things. I share these interests with my children.

It is good to branch out. You'll be surprised at what you find.

 

[energypassion9]

Jake,
Thanks for your answer. If I am not going to do what I love, why should i get a degree in something specific if we never know where I would work?Can't I apply for jobs just by knowing how to do the job?

 

[JakeBrodskyPE]

Jake,
Thanks for your answer. If I am not going to do what I love, why should i get a degree in something specific if we never know where I would work?Can't I apply for jobs just by knowing how to do the job?

First, this is not about doing what you love doing. Every job has aspects in it that you will like or hate. That's life. We all have days when we really wish we were somewhere else. Sometimes days like that go on for a long time. I've seen executive administrations ranging from good, to excellent, to those bordering on incompetent. There will be good days and bad days. There will be good years and bad years. But, on balance, if you don't mind doing what you do, it all works out. Look up the Mike Rowe (of "Dirty Jobs" fame) web sites and you'll see what the blue collar world is like. Do note that these people can make really decent money. Assumptions about what blue collar and white collar jobs are paid are rapidly being disproved.

Second, I wish it were possible to show that someone understands the work and move that person right into a job. Sadly, the day when you could look someone in the eye and just go with a gut feeling that they do okay are gone. Today, we have little choice but to play along in front of a Human Resources officer to ensure that all interviews and job evaluations meet legal requirements. This came about because of wide-spread job discrimination practices. However, I regularly wonder if the cure might be as bad as the disease.

Most companies of any size or significance demand a degree of some sort. The degree basically shows that you have the mental commitment and discipline to be able to read, write, and use some level of mathematics. From my own perspective as an engineer, any top performing technician could study to become an engineer.

I won't say that my experience in college was bereft any learning, but most of what I learned I got from other places or with self study.

The problem is that academics are the polar opposite of the practicality of engineering. Academic mindsets are to take the real world experience and distill it to an abstraction. They then teach that abstraction. Engineers take those abstractions and then build real world things. This is where academics frequently get lost. The commercial world has a much wider range of concerns and experience than academic abstractions can describe.

We need those abstractions to describe the fundamentals that a design is based upon, but we don't often speak to each other in those terms.

So yes, you probably do need a degree. High school graduation just doesn't count for as much as it used to. We have lower standards today than our parents and grandparents had. Also we really do expect a more educated work-force these days.

The equipment I work on is highly automated. I need someone with at least enough brains to know what is supposed to be happening next. If they can't stay ahead of the automation, they don't belong anywhere on that plant. To do that, you need a solid understanding of biology, chemistry, regulations, basic math, and so forth and you need to be able to do this on your feet, in the heat and the cold, even fatigued or under stress.

The days when we only needed a warm body to work for us are long gone. So, no, even if you profess to understand a job, you aren't likely to get one on that basis.