Flow work and the first law of thermodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of flow work in the context of the first law of thermodynamics, particularly as it applies to control volumes. Participants explore the justification for including flow work in energy equations and its relationship to enthalpy, as well as a related question about heat transfer and entropy in thermodynamic processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of including flow work in the energy balance equation for a control volume, particularly when pressures inside and outside are equal and no energy loss occurs due to friction.
  • Another participant states that energy entering or leaving the control volume is related to mass flow rate and enthalpy.
  • A third participant expresses a critical view of engineering thermodynamics courses, suggesting that they may not provide a clear understanding of the subject compared to physics-based courses.
  • A separate post introduces a question from a physics exam regarding heat transfer during an isothermal expansion of an ideal gas, presenting multiple-choice options for discussion.
  • One participant requests assistance with the exam question, indicating a need for clarification on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views, particularly regarding the teaching of thermodynamics and the interpretation of flow work and heat transfer. No consensus is reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to the concepts discussed, with some relying on formal education while others seek intuitive or alternative explanations. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the implications of flow work and heat transfer in thermodynamic processes.

Who May Find This Useful

Students studying thermodynamics, educators in physics and engineering, and individuals interested in the nuances of energy transfer in thermodynamic systems may find this discussion relevant.

Rasmus10
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Hi

Im trying to understand the justification for flow work for a control volumen considering the 1. law of thermodynamics.

<br /> \[\begin{array}{l}<br /> \frac{d}{{dt}}(me) + \sum {{{(e\dot m)}_{out}}} - \sum {{{(e\dot m)}_{in}} = \dot Q + \dot W} + {{\dot W}_{fw}}\\<br /> {{\dot W}_{fw}} = \sum {{{(p \cdot v \cdot \dot m)}_{in}}} - \sum {{{(p \cdot v \cdot \dot m)}_{out}}} \\<br /> e = mass\,specific\,energy\\<br /> v = mass\,specific\,volumen\\<br /> {W_{fw}} = flow\,work<br /> \end{array}\]<br />

Re-arranging the equation is used to introduce enthaply. However, what i don't understand is, why do i have to include the term flowwork? Let's say that the pressure inside the CV is equal to the pressure outside, and no energy is lost due to friction, then there would be introduced no energy to the controlvolumen? No work is done on the gas entering the CV, hence no extra increase in energy?

This is essential the understanding of the definition of enthalpy, why i really need to understand it in depth.

A bonus question: Anyone that has an intuitive microscopic understanding of why adding heat at a high temperature increase the entropy less than adding it at a lower temperature?

Regards,
Rasmus
 
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A fluid stream has energy entering or leaving the CV: mass flow rate X enthalpy.
 
Last edited:
sounds like you're in some type of "engineering thermo" class. I refer to those classes as "engineering turdmo" since they are a disgrace to thermodynamics. You won't learn anything; on the contrary, it'll make you confused and hate this subject. I urge you to take a Stat.Mech/Thermo class from a physics department if you want to learn anything regarding thermodynamics. Every question you may have will easily be cleared up if you learn it the right way.

If you want a good intro book look at Schroeder. You can learn on your own from that book easily.
 
GUYS I HAVE A QUES FROM AIPMT PRE...IT HAS GOT 4 OPTIONS .U HAVE TO MARK THE CORRECT ONE ...
~DURING AN ISOTHERMAL EXPANSION ,A CONFIRMED IDEAL GAS DOES (-150 j ) OF WORK AGAINST ITS SORRUNDINGS ..THIS IMPLIES THAT :
1) NO HEAT IS TRANSFERRED BEACAUSE THE PROCESS IS ISOTHERMAL.
2) 150 j OF HEAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE GAS .
3) 150 j OF HEAT HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM GAS
4) 300 j OF HEAT HAS BEEN ADDED TO THE GAS.
 
Can u piz answer my ques ...?
 

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