Friction in Lagrange's mechanics

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on incorporating friction into Lagrange's equations of motion. The user seeks clarification on the representation of frictional forces, specifically the distinction between constant friction (Coulomb friction) and velocity-dependent damping forces. It is explained that the constant friction force, denoted as f_1, acts in the opposite direction of motion, while f_2 represents a damping force proportional to velocity. The user is encouraged to consider examples, such as a mass sliding down a ramp, to better understand the application of these forces in Lagrange's framework. Understanding these concepts is essential for accurately modeling systems with friction in classical mechanics.
Gloyn
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Hi, I'm new here ;)

Please, forgive me the possible grammar mistakes, as English is not my mother tongue and I try to do my best.

I've been studying Lagrange's equations recently, and I've noticed that I don't know how to add the frictional force to obtain the correct equations of motion. I started to search for some infomations, and I found this:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/weights_and_wedge_1.html

There's some simple case solved in two ways: without and with fricion. In the second case, the frictional force is written to be:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/lagrange_1.html#eqn-9 (equation (9))

And my question is: what the hell is that? ;) What are those fs, and generally why is it that form? I understand that it is a frictional force that depends on velocity. What would be the form of non-velocity-dependent frictional force? Would that be just F=mgμ, where m is mass, g is gravitational acclereation, μ is a coefficient of friction? How do I add it to Lagrange's equations? If someone has a while to explain it on an example, jest do the case with a mass m sliding down the ramp, where mass of the ramp is M, angle of elevation of the ramp is β, distance of the mass from the lower end of the ramp is q and the distance of the ramp from some given point on the plane is p. Coefficient of friction is μ.

Thanks in advance for all advice!
 
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##f_1## represents a Coulomb dynamic friction force which has constant magnitude but the direction is opposite to the motion of the object. That's why he writes it as ## f_1 \dot q / | \dot q |##

##f_2## represents a damping force that is proportional to velocity. That is a common way to model damping forces, but it isn't what most people would call "friction".
 
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