Friction in Lagrange's mechanics

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    Friction Mechanics
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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on incorporating friction into Lagrange's equations of motion, specifically addressing the complexities of dynamic and damping friction forces. The user seeks clarification on the representation of frictional forces, particularly in the context of a mass sliding down a ramp. Key equations referenced include the dynamic friction force, represented as f1 = f1 \dot{q} / | \dot{q} |, and the damping force f2, which is proportional to velocity. The user also inquires about the non-velocity-dependent frictional force, expressed as F = mgμ, where m is mass, g is gravitational acceleration, and μ is the coefficient of friction.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrange's equations of motion
  • Familiarity with frictional force concepts, including Coulomb friction and damping forces
  • Basic knowledge of mechanics, specifically inclined planes and forces
  • Mathematical proficiency in calculus and differential equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Lagrange's equations with frictional forces included
  • Explore the differences between dynamic friction and damping forces in mechanics
  • Learn about the application of the coefficient of friction in various mechanical systems
  • Investigate examples of friction in non-linear dynamics and their mathematical modeling
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Students of physics, mechanical engineers, and researchers interested in advanced mechanics, particularly those looking to understand the integration of friction in Lagrangian dynamics.

Gloyn
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Hi, I'm new here ;)

Please, forgive me the possible grammar mistakes, as English is not my mother tongue and I try to do my best.

I've been studying Lagrange's equations recently, and I've noticed that I don't know how to add the frictional force to obtain the correct equations of motion. I started to search for some infomations, and I found this:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/weights_and_wedge_1.html

There's some simple case solved in two ways: without and with fricion. In the second case, the frictional force is written to be:

http://www.physicsinsights.org/lagrange_1.html#eqn-9 (equation (9))

And my question is: what the hell is that? ;) What are those fs, and generally why is it that form? I understand that it is a frictional force that depends on velocity. What would be the form of non-velocity-dependent frictional force? Would that be just F=mgμ, where m is mass, g is gravitational acclereation, μ is a coefficient of friction? How do I add it to Lagrange's equations? If someone has a while to explain it on an example, jest do the case with a mass m sliding down the ramp, where mass of the ramp is M, angle of elevation of the ramp is β, distance of the mass from the lower end of the ramp is q and the distance of the ramp from some given point on the plane is p. Coefficient of friction is μ.

Thanks in advance for all advice!
 
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##f_1## represents a Coulomb dynamic friction force which has constant magnitude but the direction is opposite to the motion of the object. That's why he writes it as ## f_1 \dot q / | \dot q |##

##f_2## represents a damping force that is proportional to velocity. That is a common way to model damping forces, but it isn't what most people would call "friction".
 

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