Frictional Force: Static to Kinetic Conversion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between static and kinetic friction, particularly whether static friction converts into kinetic friction when an object begins to move. Participants explore the nature of friction as an emergent property and the conditions under which different types of friction apply.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that static friction does not convert into kinetic friction, suggesting that kinetic friction simply takes over when motion begins.
  • Another participant questions whether static friction becomes zero when kinetic friction takes over, proposing that static friction becomes irrelevant rather than zero during motion.
  • A participant introduces a mathematical perspective on friction forces, indicating that the behavior of friction depends on the applied force relative to static and kinetic friction thresholds.
  • There is a note on the ambiguity of the situation when the applied force equals static friction, highlighting that the interpretation can vary based on the context of the question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the transition from static to kinetic friction, with no consensus reached on whether static friction becomes zero or irrelevant during this transition.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves nuances regarding the definitions and conditions under which static and kinetic friction apply, as well as the implications of applied forces on these friction types.

cbram
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Does the static friction get converted into kinetic friction while moving
 
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No.

Friction is an emergent property of underlying intermolecular forces - it's an "effect" of something else.
So one kind of friction does not convert to another kind - better to think this way:

kinetic friction takes over from static friction at the instant the object starts moving.

For an applied force ##F##, with static and kinetic friction ##f_s## and ##f_k## respectively, we can find the acceleration as:
$$a = \begin{cases}
0 &: F<f_s\\
(F-f_k)/m &: F\geq f_s \end{cases}$$

[edited to tidy up the notation]
 
Last edited:
At the instance when f_k take over f_s does f_s becomes zero
 
cbram said:
At the instance when f_k take over f_s does f_s becomes zero
I does not become zero so much as it becomes irrelevant. When there is relative motion, f_s does not apply -- the frictional force between the surfaces is given by f_k. When there is no relative motion, f_k does not apply -- the frictional force between the surfaces is limited by f_s.
 
Thank you very much
 
Note: if ##f## (no subscript) is the friction force, then Newtons law says ##F-f=ma## where

##f=\begin{cases} f_k &: F > f_s\\ F &: F < f_s \end{cases}##

What happens ##F=f_s## technically depends on the wording of the question - which is why I'm being deliberately ambiguous about where the "equality" goes.​
 

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