FRR Measurement in Digital Oscilloscope

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around measuring the delay between two BNC cables using a GDS-20174A Digital Oscilloscope, specifically focusing on the FRR (Fast Rise Rate) measurement method. Participants explore the implications of oscilloscope settings, signal characteristics, and measurement techniques in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the trigger level of the oscilloscope affects the FRR measurement.
  • Concerns are raised about the fluctuation in the mean and standard deviation of 1000 samples during measurement.
  • Another participant notes that the rising pulse is not strictly "square" and asks how the oscilloscope measures FRR under these conditions.
  • A different perspective suggests that a 200 MHz analogue front end with 1 Gs/s sampling rate may not provide sufficient resolution for comparing cable lengths, implying that a higher frequency is necessary.
  • One participant proposes using a sine wave with a series termination resistor to compare the electrical length of two similar open-circuit cables, emphasizing the importance of minimizing phase shift.
  • Clarification is provided that the FRR function calculates the time delay in the rising pulse of two signals.
  • Another participant inquires about the signal source, rise and fall times of the pulses, and the period between pulses, suggesting that the FRR measurement may not be suitable for time delay reflectometry.
  • Questions are raised about access to the far end of the cable and whether the cable can be looped back to the near end for measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of the FRR measurement for the intended application, with no consensus reached on the best method for measuring delay between the cables.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations related to the oscilloscope's specifications, such as bandwidth and sampling rate, which may affect measurement accuracy. There are also unresolved questions regarding the characteristics of the signals being measured.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in oscilloscope measurements, signal propagation, and cable testing in electronic applications.

shahbaznihal
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Hello,

This is my first post in this domain and I am fairly novice in this subject, so please bear with me.

I have a GDS-20174A Digital Oscilloscope. I am trying to measure the delay between two BNC cables using a Square Pulse of 2V with an offset of 1 V using the oscilloscope. I am using the FRR measurement to do so. My question is,
1) Does the trigger level of the oscilloscope concerns the FRR measurement?
2) The mean of 1000 samples fluctuated and so does the standard deviation?
3) The rising pulse is not strictly "square", how does your oscilloscope measure the FRR in this case?

Moreover, these measurements depend significantly on the timebase of the oscilloscope. The manual of the oscilloscope is available here.
 
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shahbaznihal said:
I am trying to measure the delay between two BNC cables using a Square Pulse of 2V with an offset of 1 V using the oscilloscope. I am using the FRR measurement to do so.
Exactly what is an FRR measurement.

A 200 MHz analogue front end with 1 Gs/s will not enable you to compare cable lengths. 1 GHz has a period of 1 nsec. That is about 300 mm in a cable. The front end will blur the signal further. Your resolution will be very poor, maybe one metre.

To compare the electrical length of two similar open-circuit cables, drive the cable with a sine wave, through a series termination resistor. Use a two channel oscilloscope to observe the phase shift of the signals at both sides of the termination resistor. Adjust the sinewave frequency to minimise phase shift, record the frequency. Repeat the process for the other line.
 
Baluncore said:
Exactly what is an FRR measurement.

The FRR function calculates the time delay in the rising pulse of two signals.
 
shahbaznihal said:
I have a GDS-20174A Digital Oscilloscope. I am trying to measure the delay between two BNC cables using a Square Pulse of 2V with an offset of 1 V using the oscilloscope. I am using the FRR measurement to do so.
What is your signal source? What are the rise and fall times of the pulses? What is the period between pulses?

The FRR measurement doesn't look like it would be used for time delay reflectometry -- looks more like a signal propagation measurement where you have clear access to the signals at different locations. Do you have access to the far end of the cable? (can the cable be looped back to the near end at the oscilloscope?

https://www.tmatlantic.com/encyclopedia/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=9196
 

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