Functional structure of Surface Heat

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on determining the relationship between the number of machines turned on in a closed room and the resulting surface temperature of the room. Initial thoughts suggest a linear relationship, where doubling the machines would double the temperature increase, but experimental observations indicate a non-linear relationship influenced by heat radiation. The Stefan-Boltzmann equation highlights that thermal radiation is proportional to the fourth power of temperature, complicating the analysis. The geometry of the room can be approximated as a sphere, simplifying calculations, but the model must account for factors like emissivity and energy exchange between surfaces. Overall, a more detailed model is necessary to accurately predict surface temperature changes as machine numbers increase.
balulu
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I am facing the following interesting question.

A closed room\hall contains several identical machines in it, they are fed by an electrical cable.
The machines can be turned on or off. When a machine is turned on, it consumes electrical energy and as a by product generates heat. The heat is radiated through the room walls to the outside air.
At present there are 2 machines in the room, but thed esigners consider adding mmore machines. The concern is that the outside surface area of the structure will become too hot.

What is the function that describes the room surface temperature in steady state as a function of the number of machines that are turned on? Is it power of 2 or of 3 of β (the number of machines that are turned on)?

It can be shown that the functional structure of the function that describes surface heat as a function of machines turned on is not dependent on the geometry of the room (the coefficients do). In order to simplify the analysis and find the functional structure as a function of β, assume that the room is a ball.
 
Science news on Phys.org
Since you haven't had a reply i'll have a go...

If we are talking about a real world building then for a first approximation I believe you can consider it a straightforward linear relationship. If one machine of power P raises the surface temperature by say 5C then two machines would raise it 10C .

For example a typical power loss calculation for a room would be

Power = (Troom-Tair)/Thermal Resistance

Where Troom = Room air temperature
Tair = Outside air temperature
Power = Power loss through the walls. Under equilibrium conditions this is equal to the power going into the room.
Thermal resistance = a constant.

Typically the Thermal Tesistance would be made up several components in series. For example the thermal resistance of a wall would be the sum of the thermal resistances of it's component parts from the paint on the inside to the cladding or render on the outside.

The above applies to normal building materials. If we are talking exotic materials such as thin layers of polished aluminium foil and temperatures high enough for radaition to dominate conduction then then you need a better more detailed answer that I can't provide.

One word of caution...The outside surface temperature of some buildings is dominated by how sunny it is rather than what's inside generating heat.
 
Thank you CW,

Thank you for your reply.

The outside skeen is not conventional matrial but it is heat conductieve, thin and radiating.

I thoght on a linear relationship too, but than measured 1 machine versus 2 mcahines on, waited long enough to reach steady state (same outside temperature), but the relationship is clearly non linear (I had also no machines on as another referecne point). My own interpretation is that heat radiation has an effect. Heat radiation is not a linear function.

It is inaccurate to base the functional relationships on two observations that are too close one to the other. The main objective is to move 20 to 50 machines into the structure.
 
Last edited:
A black body emits thermal radiation based on the fourth power of temperature according to the stephan-Boltzman equation. Other bodies have an emissivity factor to account for a non black body surface and this factor can range from 0 to 1.

then there is absorbed energy, reflected energy and transmitted energy of the surface to factor in the model.

If you consider the surface to be a greybody then absorbed radiation equals emitted radiation of the surface.

In your model, these and a few more parameters that need to be taken into account. Is the structure radiating into space on into another sphere greybody or balackbody. Are the machines to be considered as radiating spheres within the enclosur sphere and/or is conduction and convection to be considered.

for example, a sphere enclosed by another sphere and both exchanging energy by radiation is basic textbook. Adding more spheres should just be an extension of the problem.

It can be shown that the functional structure of the function that describes surface heat as a function of machines turned on is not dependent on the geometry of the room (the coefficients do). In order to simplify the analysis and find the functional structure as a function of β, assume that the room is a ball.
For walls radiating to one another a shape factor from charts are available. If you choose to simpliy the problem by using spheres that would be an approximation of course, as the walls would not receive equal amounts of radiation.

Your model needs some more work done to it I think to figure out what more assumptions are necessary. Are you sure this isn't a homework question?
 
Thank you for your input, I appreciate your help.
I assure you that it is not a homework, it is a very serious and fundamental problem.


Yes, it can be assumed that the geometry is of a sphere, and the radiation is to the outside air. The boundery (the sphere surface) is very thin and the only way to get rid of the heat generated inside the sphere is through its surface.

I don't know the inside temperature, but I know the heat energy per unit of time generated by each machine when it is on. All machines are identical, for simplicity you can assume that they consume negligible volume/space and all of them are in the center of the sphere (so we don't have to deal with their specific locations.

Another way to approach and simplify is to assume that the machines are uniformely distributed in the volume of the sphere.
 
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
Back
Top