Generalized Velocity: Lagrangian

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the kinetic energy contributions of a mass in a system defined by generalized coordinates, specifically in the context of Lagrangian mechanics. The original poster seeks clarification on the differences in kinetic energy expressions based on the defined origins of the coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the definitions of generalized coordinates and their implications on the expressions for kinetic energy. Questions arise regarding the role of the origin in determining the relative velocities of the masses involved.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into how the definitions of coordinates affect the calculations of kinetic energy. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationship between vector addition and the definitions of the coordinates, with no explicit consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the implications of defining coordinates relative to different origins and how this affects the interpretation of velocities in the system. The discussion is framed within the constraints of generalized coordinates in Lagrangian mechanics.

WWCY
Messages
476
Reaction score
15

Homework Statement


Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.27 PM.png

[/B]
In this example, I know that I can define the horizontal contribution of kinetic energy to the ball as ##\frac{1}{2}m(\dot{x} + \dot{X})^2##.

In the following example,
Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.16 PM.png


Mass ##M_{x1}##'s horizontal contribution to KE is defined as ##\frac{1}{2}m(\dot{X} - \dot{x_1})^2##. Why is this? I have a hunch that it is due to the "origin" (##X## line) ##x_1## and ##x_2## originate from, though I can't exactly put my finger on the exact reason.

Assistance is greatly appreciated!

2. Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.27 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.27 PM.png
    3.9 KB · Views: 1,371
  • Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.16 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2017-12-04 at 9.58.16 PM.png
    4.7 KB · Views: 896
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
It has to do with the way the generalized coordinates are defined. In the top drawing ##\dot{x}## increases to the right (although not clear from the double arrow) so the velocity relative to the ground is ##\dot{X}+\dot{x}##. In the second drawing, ##x_1## increases to the left while ##X## increases to the right, so the relative velocity would be ##\dot{X}-\dot{x_1}##.
 
kuruman said:
It has to do with the way the generalized coordinates are defined. In the top drawing ##\dot{x}## increases to the right (although not clear from the double arrow) so the velocity relative to the ground is ##\dot{X}+\dot{x}##. In the second drawing, ##x_1## increases to the left while ##X## increases to the right, so the relative velocity would be ##\dot{X}-\dot{x_1}##.

Thanks for the response,

Would I be right to say that this is also the result of vector addition? Edit: With ##x_1## being defined as positive vector
 
You could say that considering that it involves defining cartesian coordinates relative to origin ##O_1## and then adding a cartesian coordinate to define origin ##O_1## relative to new origin ##O_2##.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
7K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K