Generator Project: Designing a Self-Powered System with Batteries & PLC

In summary, the conversation is about a group of graduating students of Electrical Engineering Technology who are working on a thesis project to create a generator that can supply a house and power itself. They plan to include batteries and a PLC in the design. The problem is determining how much power will be delivered to the load and if the design is possible. The student in the conversation has doubts about the design and is concerned that all the power will be consumed by the transformer. They are also unsure about the rate of charge of the battery and if it can be fully charged quickly with a large amount of current. The conversation ends with a mention of the PF Forbidden Topics List, specifically regarding perpetual motion machines and free energy, as the idea of the generator described may
  • #1
jovel.happy
2
0
I'm a graduating student of Electrical Engineering Technology (3 years) and so one of our graduating subject is thesis. We decided to make a generator that can supply the house and supply itself by giving some of the power to back to the motor which rotates it. We also included batteries and PLC.

It works like this, first the battery will power the motor, the motor will spin the generator. Some of the power will go back to the motor and the battery. Once the power from the generator goes back to the motor, using PLC, the battery will now stop supplying the motor and recharge, it will only supply back the motor when needed, using PLC. We still haven't made design for the PLC.

Homework Statement
https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p417x417/1475966_881102735242274_5637216028457964277_n.jpg?oh=0fccbedf7441a6b55cb2e80a63b3e702&oe=5516453F The problem is how much power will be delivered to the load and if this design is actually possible. I have this feeling that all of the power will be consumed by the transformer. To find out how much power will go to the load, I need to know how much current will go to the transformer.

The motor will need around 85 amperes in order to operate. So that means the output current of the transformer should be around 100 amperes since some of the current will go to the battery to charge it.

The ideal transformer formula is power in equals power out.
So the output power of the transformer is (24V x 100A) = 2400W
The input power is (230V x I) = 230I
230I = 2400
I = 10 A

That means the transformer needs an input current of 10A, since it is not an ideal transformer the value is higher than 10A.


The attempt at a solution

My classmates said that we will put super capacitor in around the battery. With the help of super capacitor, the charge rate of the battery will increase and its discharge rate will decrease. But I feel even that won't help. They're just mostly laughing while I'm explaining this problem to them. They keep on saying it will work and that I don't need to worry. I'm thinking of leaving the group and join other groups instead.Another thing is the rate of charge of battery. How do I calculate the number of hours it will take to charge the battery. I've come across the formula h = (Ah of battery/A of charger) where h is the number of hours it will take to charge the battery. Does this mean that I can fully recharge a battery very very fast if it can take a large amount of current?
 
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  • #2
Hi jovel.happy. Welcome to the famous Physics Forums!

In your 3 years of study, it's surprising that none of your subjects dealt with this fantastic idea your group is preparing to demonstrate. Surely someone else must have thought of it before now? It would be so revolutionary if it could be made to work.

Has anyone in your group voiced misgivings about it, or do you anticipate any significant problems?
 
  • #3
jovel.happy said:
I'm a graduating student of Electrical Engineering Technology (3 years) and so one of our graduating subject is thesis. We decided to make a generator that can supply the house and supply itself by giving some of the power to back to the motor which rotates it. We also included batteries and PLC.

It works like this, first the battery will power the motor, the motor will spin the generator. Some of the power will go back to the motor and the battery. Once the power from the generator goes back to the motor, using PLC, the battery will now stop supplying the motor and recharge, it will only supply back the motor when needed, using PLC. We still haven't made design for the PLC.

Homework Statement
https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/p417x417/1475966_881102735242274_5637216028457964277_n.jpg?oh=0fccbedf7441a6b55cb2e80a63b3e702&oe=5516453FThe problem is how much power will be delivered to the load and if this design is actually possible. I have this feeling that all of the power will be consumed by the transformer. To find out how much power will go to the load, I need to know how much current will go to the transformer.

The motor will need around 85 amperes in order to operate. So that means the output current of the transformer should be around 100 amperes since some of the current will go to the battery to charge it.

The ideal transformer formula is power in equals power out.
So the output power of the transformer is (24V x 100A) = 2400W
The input power is (230V x I) = 230I
230I = 2400
I = 10 A

That means the transformer needs an input current of 10A, since it is not an ideal transformer the value is higher than 10A.


The attempt at a solution

My classmates said that we will put super capacitor in around the battery. With the help of super capacitor, the charge rate of the battery will increase and its discharge rate will decrease. But I feel even that won't help. They're just mostly laughing while I'm explaining this problem to them. They keep on saying it will work and that I don't need to worry. I'm thinking of leaving the group and join other groups instead.Another thing is the rate of charge of battery. How do I calculate the number of hours it will take to charge the battery. I've come across the formula h = (Ah of battery/A of charger) where h is the number of hours it will take to charge the battery. Does this mean that I can fully recharge a battery very very fast if it can take a large amount of current?

Welcome to the PF.

What you are describing is a "Perpetual Motion Machine" (PMM) or Over-Unity Device. Each of these is a forbidden topic here at the PF. Please follow the links in the quote below from the PF Forbidden Topics List to learn more about why PMMs cannot work.

PF Forbidden Topics said:
Pseudoscience, such as (but not limited to):
Perpetual motion and "free energy" discussions
http://wiki.4hv.org/index.php/Free_Energy_Debunking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://www.skepdic.com/freeenergy.html
http://www.skepdic.com/perpetual.html
 

1. How does a generator work?

A generator works by converting mechanical energy into electrical energy. This is achieved through the use of a rotor, which spins inside of a stator, creating a magnetic field. As the rotor spins, it induces an electrical current in the stator, which is then transferred to the battery for storage.

2. What is the purpose of a battery in a self-powered system?

The battery in a self-powered system serves as a storage unit for the electrical energy generated by the generator. It allows for the system to continue functioning even when the generator is not actively producing energy, providing a consistent power source.

3. How does the PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) play a role in the generator project?

The PLC is a computerized control system that is programmed to monitor and control various aspects of the generator project. It can be used to automate processes, monitor energy levels, and adjust system settings for optimal performance.

4. What are some important factors to consider when designing a self-powered system with batteries & PLC?

When designing a self-powered system, it is important to consider the energy requirements, the size and type of battery needed, the efficiency of the generator, and the programming capabilities of the PLC. Additionally, factors such as location, environmental conditions, and safety should also be taken into account.

5. Can a self-powered system with batteries & PLC be used in residential or commercial settings?

Yes, a self-powered system with batteries & PLC can be used in both residential and commercial settings. These systems are commonly used in off-grid homes, as well as in industrial or commercial buildings where a consistent power source is crucial. They can also be integrated into existing electrical systems for backup power during outages.

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