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Generators and electrons

  1. Mar 17, 2004 #1
    An electric generator can make electrons, no one has found a manner to make a proton, not to the best of my knowledge, break? Yup! make? Nope! Electrons can be made, or "brought into being", there stability is nowheres near that of a protons, or a nucleated neutron...so's I would suspect different species of a similar kinda animal life...so to speak...
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 17, 2004 #2

    chroot

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    No, MRP, generators do not make electrons.

    - Warren
     
  4. Mar 17, 2004 #3
    OK where/what is the answer then....?
     
  5. Mar 17, 2004 #4

    chroot

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    The answer to what?

    - Warren
     
  6. Mar 18, 2004 #5
    YIKES! where the electrons come from? .....!!! when a generator generates electricity and it is "bled off" the other end, into things like light bulbs...
     
  7. Mar 18, 2004 #6
    I am not quite sure by what you mean by a generator. But typically, in metals used for wires, which carry current, the eletrons are free to move about (or the holes created by them leaving depending on the material). They move, bump into each other, and transfer energy down the wire. I know this is a very simplistic picture. But the basic idea here is that electrons are not "created." They simply flow because they are free in metals. This may not be the case in other materials (dielectrics), which are not good conductors of electricity.
    Hope this clears things up.
    Cheers,
    Norm
     
  8. Mar 18, 2004 #7
    So this means 'potentials' as in when you connect a generator to a battery and refill the outer valence shell electrons Holes? (that the 'atoms' then store, as electrons)

    Isn't that the meaning of the word "generator", 'cause to occur' 'bring into being', cause, followed by effect Hummm seems to be able to output electrons, into batteries.....(?)
     
  9. Mar 18, 2004 #8

    chroot

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    Zillions of electrons already exist in the metal as essentially a free electron gas. The electrons are not bound to one specific atom, and can move about easily.

    The generator simply produces a potential difference between its two leads, which then encourages electrons to flow around the conductor.

    No electrons are created by a generator; they are only moved about.

    - Warren
     
  10. Mar 19, 2004 #9
    Hummm I can fill enough batteries to show that the electron(s) had to be formed, somewheres, inasmuch as there are NOT accountable from anywheres in the immediate vicinty (or otherwise) of the Source/generator....so, where did they come from?
     
  11. Mar 19, 2004 #10

    chroot

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    Where did they come from? The big bang, according to current scientific dogma. Or perhaps your God made them, or perhaps they just always existed. In any case, an electric generator generates an electric FIELD -- the electrons which move due to that field already exist in the conductor.

    - Warren
     
  12. Mar 20, 2004 #11
    Then a small generator, filling lots of batteries, (With valence shell electrons) would cause the wire to dissappear, in short time, and, BTW, that don't happen! Try again....
     
  13. Mar 21, 2004 #12
    So I suspect the question ElliePhysicsStudent asked has been answered, right? following that was the other particle(s) stabilities, neutrons only remain stable in an atom, remove them and the decay quite quickly, they are also thought of (by/in current theory) as 'constructed' in Fusion reactions, so the candidate for a model of either, stability, or solidity, (hard to break, lots of energy needed) would be the Proton....given 25 years a generation, human lifetimes, from the begining of recorded history (roughly ~7000 years) works out to 280 generations of humans, compared to something that seems to have properties that extend it's believed stability ranging into the 10^30 + years, from a human viewpoint, I would respectfully suggest we can call it "stable"...cause, apparently, it's stability is beyond even the collective effort of all of what had/has been our ancestors, from the beginning of recorded histroy, had they been able to measure it, to measure....
     
  14. Mar 21, 2004 #13

    chroot

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    The battery also contains the same number of electrons when charged and uncharged -- they're just in different places.

    I suggest you do a little reading to clear up some of the misconceptions you have.

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/battery.htm

    - Warren
     
  15. Mar 21, 2004 #14

    krab

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    Generator generates electricity. Does not generate electrons. It would be like saying that a roller coaster ride generates cars. Electricity travels in a circuit; The electrons go round and round. The power source takes incoming tired electrons, gives them more energy and sends them on their way. In the load part of the circuits, electrons give up their energy.
     
  16. Mar 21, 2004 #15
    When you charged a capacitor by connecting it to a battery, did you create a potential difference between the plates of the capacitor? Yes. Did you "create" electrons or add to electrons to the capacitor? No. All the battery did was to move the electrons to one plate of the capacitor, so that one plate is charged positively and the other is charged negatively.
     
  17. Mar 21, 2004 #16
    So oxidation and/or reduction is NOT the principals of how batteries work then, is it?

    EDIT I'll be back, just that, the time...no time to read...
     
  18. Mar 21, 2004 #17

    chroot

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    Redox reactions move electrons around, MRP. They don't create or destroy them.

    - Warren
     
  19. Mar 22, 2004 #18

    russ_watters

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    You're under the erroneous belief that electrons are consumed by an electric circuit. They are not. That would be an e=mc^2 type of event. When an electron goes through a light bulb for example, energy is removed from it in the form of the electromotive force pushing it through the wire. Thats it. It still exists and it still moves through the wire, it just carries less energy than it did before (potential times charge).

    Batteries work by separating electrons from atoms and making ions. Have a look at THIS
    An ion is an ion because it gave up an electron it used to have. Nothing is created or destroyed.
     
  20. Mar 22, 2004 #19
    ...Thats kinda funny cause when I recharge a lead acid battery the specific gravity of the solution changes according to the electric charge present, (or absent) presence of electrons, or absence, if I can generate (create) an absence, by using the current, then can recharge it with a generator, the electrons that vacated, to be used, must be replaced with something, from somewhere...right?

    Aside from that, that citaton of russ's tells of electrons "travelling"...further to that is the need of solution to the particle/wave duality debate, in order to resolve whether they move, or just bump...not happening here, Not from me at least, and not cause it can't be done, other reasons..........
     
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