Geodesics on a cone in flat space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of geodesics on a cone formed by fixing a coordinate on a sphere. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of geodesic equations and the implications of these equations for understanding the geometry of cones in flat space.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the geodesic equations derived from the Euler-Lagrange equations for a cone and poses a question about the nature of geodesics on the cone when flattened.
  • Another participant asserts that geodesics are straight lines, suggesting that the flatness of the cone is a result of the use of plane polar coordinates.
  • A third participant elaborates on the flattening process of the cone, indicating that the angle in the plane corresponds to the geodesic equation, thus reinforcing the straight-line nature of geodesics.
  • Another participant discusses the physical analogy of cutting a wedge from paper to form a cone, emphasizing that the curvature tensor is flat except at the tip of the cone, which is crucial for defining a proper manifold structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept that geodesics on the cone correspond to straight lines when the cone is flattened. However, there are nuances regarding the implications of curvature and the definition of the manifold structure that remain less clear.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the necessity of excluding the tip of the cone to maintain a proper manifold structure, which introduces complexity in the discussion of curvature and geodesics.

WannabeNewton
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So if you take a sphere with coordinates (r, \theta,\phi) and keep \theta constant you get a cone.
The geodesic equations reduce to (by virtue of the euler - lagrange equations):

\frac{\mathrm{d} ^{2}r}{\mathrm{d} s^{2}} - r\omega ^{2}\frac{\mathrm{d} \phi }{\mathrm{d} s} = 0 where \omega = sin\theta _{0}

and \frac{\mathrm{d} \phi }{\mathrm{d} s} = k / r^{2}
where k is an arbitrary constant gotten from the fact that the derivative of the lagrangian with respect to a cyclic coordinate is a constant.

These reduce to \frac{\mathrm{d} }{\mathrm{d} \phi }(\frac{\mathrm{d}r }{\mathrm{d} \phi }\frac{1}{r^{2}}) = \frac{\omega ^{2}}{r} and if you solve by substituting p = 1 / r then the equation has a solution of the form:

1 = Arcos(\omega \phi ) + Brsin(\omega \phi ) where A and B are arbitrary constants. How can you tell from this equation for the geodesic that it follows straight lines on the cone if the cone were to be flattened out?
 
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Of course they're straight -- they're geodesics! I guess what you're really asking is, why is the cone "flat", which follows from the fact that r, φ are plane polar coordinates.
 
Hi WannabeNewton! :smile:

(have a theta: θ and a phi: φ and an omega: ω :wink:)
WannabeNewton said:
… How can you tell from this equation for the geodesic that it follows straight lines on the cone if the cone were to be flattened out?

Flatten the cone by slitting in along one generator …

then the angle on that plane will be ωφ, and so any straight line will have rcos(ωφ + constant) = constant …

which is the same as your geodesic equation! :wink:
 
Basically a cone is flat. Physically, you can cut a wedge out of a paper and fold it up into a cone. Mathematically, you then have a "map" from every point on the flat piece of paper (minus the wedge) to a point on the cone.

However, one has to exclude the tip of the cone to get a proper manifold structure. When this is done, the curvature tensor is flat everywhere it is defined, which is everywhere but the tip of the cone.
 

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