Geometric mean versus arithmetic mean

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the mathematical validity of using the weighted geometric mean to combine attenuation coefficients from different wavelengths in the context of the Beer-Lambert law. Participants explore the implications of this approach for modeling light intensity in scenarios involving multiple wavelengths, particularly in material processing applications.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the weighted geometric mean to combine different attenuation coefficients for two wavelengths, questioning its validity in the context of the Beer-Lambert law.
  • Another participant argues that exponential behavior with multiple wavelengths cannot be accurately represented by a single exponential function, citing the presence of narrow absorption bands in the infrared region.
  • A participant references the impossibility of expressing the sum of two exponentials as a single exponential when the coefficients differ, regardless of how the mean absorption coefficient is defined.
  • One participant acknowledges the Beer-Lambert law's applicability to monochromatic light but seeks clarification on why combining the coefficients using the geometric mean is mathematically incorrect.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical proof demonstrating that the sum of exponentials cannot yield a constant unless the coefficients are equal, reinforcing the argument against the proposed method.
  • A later reply indicates that absorption coefficients can only be combined for multiple absorbing species, suggesting a different approach for combining coefficients based on concentration and specific absorption coefficients.
  • One participant adds a caveat that the coefficients must refer to the same wavelength for combination to be valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of using the weighted geometric mean to combine attenuation coefficients for different wavelengths. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of the coefficients and the specific conditions under which the Beer-Lambert law applies. The discussion highlights unresolved mathematical steps related to the combination of different wavelengths.

roam
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The Beer-Lambert law gives the intensity of monochromatic light as a function of depth ##z## in the form of an exponential attenuation:

$$I(z)=I_{0}e^{-\gamma z},$$

where ##\gamma## is the wavelength-dependent attenuation coefficient.

However, if two different wavelengths are present simultaneously, we will have two different coefficients to consider: ##\gamma_{\lambda_{1}}## and ##\gamma_{\lambda_{2}}##. Would it be mathematically correct to combine the two attenuation coefficients into one using the weighted geometric mean?

I mean, if ##p_1## and ##p_2## are the fractions of the light beam which is of a given wavelength, using geometric mean (instead of the arithmetic formula) we would have:

$$I(z)=I_{o} e^{-\bar{\gamma}z},$$

where:

$$\bar{\gamma}=\left(\gamma_{\lambda_{1}} \times\gamma_{\lambda_{2}}\right)^{1 / (p_{1}+p_{2})}.$$

Is the use of the geometric mean valid here?
 
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Any kind of exponential behavior with multiple wavelengths with atmospheric attenuation is incorrect. What occurs in the infrared region with some atmospheric absorption bands is there are quite a number of very narrow absorption bands and absorption lines that remove a fair amount of the energy from those absorption bands and lines within about 50 feet, without appreciably affecting adjacent wavelengths. The result is the atmospheric transmission spectrum, especially at low to medium resolution, after about 100 feet looks nearly the same as it does after about 500 feet. Any kind of exponential averaging like you are proposing simply doesn't work. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_window
 
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As Charles said, there's no way to write the sum of two exponentials ##Ae^{-k_1 x} + Be^{-k_2 x}## as a single exponential ##Ce^{-k' x}## if ##k_1 \neq k_2##, no matter how you define the mean absorption coefficient ##k'##.
 
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Hi Charles,

I understand that Beer-Lambert law only applies to monochromatic light. But the definition of geometric mean does allow us to combine the two exponentials into one. I admit that I have never seen this done in literature before. So I wanted to know why this is mathematically incorrect (which is why I originally posted this under the mathematics sub-forum).

Note: my problem relates to the area of material processing by laser beams when two different wavelengths are simultaneously present in the beam (e.g. as a result of second harmonic generation). Suppose a laser operates at the wavelength ##\lambda_1##. If ##\lambda_2## has a greater absorptance in a given material than ##\lambda_1##, the overall absorptance of the laser energy increases by converting a fraction of the beam into ##\lambda_2##. A convenient way to show this is to define an overall effective attenuation coefficient (if such a thing is possible).

hilbert2 said:
As Charles said, there's no way to write the sum of two exponentials ##Ae^{-k_1 x} + Be^{-k_2 x}## as a single exponential ##Ce^{-k' x}## if ##k_1 \neq k_2##, no matter how you define the mean absorption coefficient ##k'##.

Why can you not use the weighted geometric mean?

It clearly works for exponentials and when you have geometric terms. From the definition given in Wikipedia we can write the combined attenuation coefficient as:

$$\bar{\gamma}=\left(\Pi_{i=1}^{n}\gamma_{\lambda_{i}}^{p_{i}}\right)^{1/\sum_{i=1}^{n}p_{i}},$$

where in this case ##n=2##.
 
Let's see what happens if we assume that for some ##k_1 \in \mathbb{R}## and ##k_2 \in \mathbb{R}## with ##k_1 \neq k_2## and ##k' , A, B, C \in \mathbb{R}## we have

##Ae^{-k_1 x} + Be^{-k_2 x} = Ce^{-k' x}##, for any ##x\in \mathbb{R}##.

Dividing both sides of the equation by ##Ce^{-k' x}##, we obtain

##\frac{A}{C}e^{(k'-k_1 )x} + \frac{B}{C}e^{(k'-k_2 )x} = 1##.

But for the sum of exponentials on the LHS to be an x-independent constant, we would need to have

##k' - k_1 = 0##, and ##k'-k_2 = 0##,

which is impossible when ##k_1 \neq k_2##. Proved.

Edit: You also have to assume that ##A,B## and ##C## are greater than zero, but that's quite obvious...
 
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What you did was incorrect mathematically. When I solve it I get: $$\bar{\gamma}=-\frac{\ln(p_1e^{-\gamma_1z}+p_2e^{-\gamma_2z})}{z}$$This does not reduce to the result you obtained.
 
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Thank you Chestermiller. I can see what went wrong there.

So, we can't combine two absorption coefficients for two different wavelengths.

I guess absorption coefficients can only be combined for multiple absorbing species. For example, when two components are present in the sample you have the superposition:

$$\overline{\gamma} = \gamma_1 + \gamma_2 = \alpha_1 c_1 + \alpha_2 c_2,$$

where ##c## is the concentration of a component and ##\alpha## is its specific absorption coefficient.
 
With the proviso that both coefficients refer to the same wavelength.
 
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