Gravitational Model of Tides: Earth and Sun Potential Addition

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the validity of adding tidal potentials from the Earth and Sun to model tides, with references to various scientific papers. The superposition principle initially raises doubts, but Avsyuk's approach to calculating accelerations in different reference frames is highlighted. However, it is noted that Sitnik and Khlystov later contradicted Avsyuk's findings, suggesting a significant error in his calculations. The conversation also advises caution when interpreting older Soviet scientific literature, acknowledging both its strengths and weaknesses. Overall, the consensus leans towards the correctness of the simple addition method for tidal potentials.
frogeraie
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I have a question about the gravitational model used to describe tides:
Is it correct to simply add the tide potentials respectively due to Earth and sun as most people do? (see for instance a good example of this approach in Eq 9 of: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0701/0701301v1.pdf).
The superposition principle, at first, almost convinced me not to go further... when I came across this 1976 paper: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1977SvAL...3...96A,
which is then contradicted in 1981 by:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1981SvAL...7..281S/0000282.000.html.
Avsyuk's reasoning is appealing:
to calculate the acceleration a0 of M0 in the inertial coordinate system of the three bodies he adds the acceleration a1 of M0 in the mobile system of the earth-moon barycenter to the acceleration a2 of this barycenter with respect to the earth-moon-sun reference system.
Sitnik and Khlystov have the same expression for a2 (Eq. 6) but they differ for a1. I have a hard time to understand their second term in (8). What is M0 acceleration in the mobile refrerence frame of the earth-moon barycenter? Is it Sitnik and Khlystov's Eq.8 or F3/M0 as Avsyuk wants or, as I would prefer, (F1+F3)/M0?
Does someone would care to ponder a bit on these questions? Thanks!
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
frogeraie said:
I have a question about the gravitational model used to describe tides:
Is it correct to simply add the tide potentials respectively due to Earth and sun as most people do?
Yes.

I came across this 1976 paper. Avsyuk's reasoning is appealing: to calculate the acceleration a0 of M0 in the inertial coordinate system of the three bodies he adds the acceleration a1 of M0 in the mobile system of the earth-moon barycenter to the acceleration a2 of this barycenter with respect to the earth-moon-sun reference system.
A word of advice on scientific papers from the old Soviet Union: Read them with a grain of salt. Some of that old Soviet science was very, very good. KAM theory, for example. On the other hand, some of it was very, very bad. Lysenkoism, for example. Anything that proved that those stupid capitalists were wrong was good science. Look at it this way: It took 4 years to publish a paper (Sitnik & Khlystov) that showed Avsyuk's reasoning was wrong; that he made what was essentially a stupid math error.
 
TL;DR Summary: In 3 years, the Square Kilometre Array (SKA) telescope (or rather, a system of telescopes) should be put into operation. In case of failure to detect alien signals, it will further expand the radius of the so-called silence (or rather, radio silence) of the Universe. Is there any sense in this or is blissful ignorance better? In 3 years, the Square Kilometre Array (SKA) telescope (or rather, a system of telescopes) should be put into operation. In case of failure to detect...
Thread 'Could gamma-ray bursts have an intragalactic origin?'
This is indirectly evidenced by a map of the distribution of gamma-ray bursts in the night sky, made in the form of an elongated globe. And also the weakening of gamma radiation by the disk and the center of the Milky Way, which leads to anisotropy in the possibilities of observing gamma-ray bursts. My line of reasoning is as follows: 1. Gamma radiation should be absorbed to some extent by dust and other components of the interstellar medium. As a result, with an extragalactic origin, fewer...
This thread is dedicated to the beauty and awesomeness of our Universe. If you feel like it, please share video clips and photos (or nice animations) of space and objects in space in this thread. Your posts, clips and photos may by all means include scientific information; that does not make it less beautiful to me (n.b. the posts must of course comply with the PF guidelines, i.e. regarding science, only mainstream science is allowed, fringe/pseudoscience is not allowed). n.b. I start this...
Back
Top