Gravitational waves in cosmology?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the implications of gravitational waves in cosmology, particularly how they behave when linearized around the Friedmann-Robertson-Walker (FRW) metric with a cosmological constant and uniform energy density. Participants explore the effects of matter and the cosmological constant on gravitational waves, raising questions about energy absorption and redshift.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the presence of matter in the universe could damp out gravitational waves, similar to how it affects light propagation.
  • Others argue that while matter may impede light slightly, it does not significantly affect the gravitational waves that reach us.
  • There is a discussion about the role of the cosmological constant, with some suggesting it may amplify gravitational waves, while others question its contribution to redshift.
  • One participant notes that the redshift can be understood as a measure of the universe's expansion between the time of emission and reception of light, complicating the separation of effects from normal expansion and acceleration.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the relationship between acceleration and redshift, indicating a need for clarification on how these concepts interact.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the effects of matter and the cosmological constant on gravitational waves and redshift. There is no consensus on how to quantify these effects or their implications for gravitational wave propagation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include unresolved assumptions about the behavior of gravitational waves in a cosmological context and the complexities of separating the contributions of different energy densities to redshift.

TEFLing
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The usual calculations for gravitational waves linearize the GR equations around the background solution of flat space time ( g = Minkowski metric matrix ) empty of matter and energy ( T = 0 )

What happens in cosmology, when one must linearize the GR equations about the FRW metric matrix with cosmological constant ( on the LHS ) and uniform energy density and pressure ( on the RHS ) ?

Intuitively, the presence of matter throughout the fabric of space time would damp out gravitational waves... The matter could absorb some of the wave energy, like coins carpeting the often mentioned trampoline / rubber sheet. And what about the effects of the cosmological constant... Considered as an intrinsic tendency for curvature of the fabric of space time, maybe it amplifies gravitational waves??

Has anyone linearized the GR equations around the FRW + cc metric / uniform universe SET solution? Any popular or journal articles perhaps or other derivations? Seems like the cosmological background solution would have some interesting and perhaps important differences from the flat empty space solution
 
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TEFLing said:
Intuitively, the presence of matter throughout the fabric of space time would damp out gravitational waves...
No more than it damps out light and we still have no trouble seeing galaxies some 13Billion LY away.

And what about the effects of the cosmological constant
"red shift" (in the sense of lowering the frequency) exactly as with light.
 
phinds said:
No more than it damps out light and we still have no trouble seeing galaxies some 13Billion LY away.

"red shift" (in the sense of lowering the frequency) exactly as with light.
First I never said the effect would be strong but matter does impede the propagation of light slightly, yes?
Also the cosmological constant contributes to but doesn't CAUSE redshift yes?
 
TEFLing said:
First I never said the effect would be strong but matter does impede the propagation of light slightly, yes?
To an insignificant degree, sure, but it doesn't slow down the wave that do reach us (assuming there are such things as gravitational waves, which does seem likely even thought they haven't been detected yet)
Also the cosmological constant contributes to but doesn't CAUSE redshift yes?
If the cosmological constant is in fact "dark energy" then yes, it causes red shift (along with normal expansion, but it's mostly due to the acceleration, I think)
 
phinds said:
If the cosmological constant is in fact "dark energy" then yes, it causes red shift (along with normal expansion, but it's mostly due to the acceleration, I think)

Not really. The best way to think of the redshift is as a measure of how much larger the universe is at the time of reception, compared to the time of emission. Mathematically, this relative expansion factor is ##1 + z##, where ##z## is the redshift. So ##1 + z = 2## means the universe is twice as large when you receive the light as it was when the light was emitted. (If thinking of the universe as having a "size" is problematic for you, since as far as we can tell it's spatially infinite, just substitute "scale factor" for "size of the universe".)

You can't really separate out "normal expansion" from "acceleration" when you look at it this way; both of them contribute, and it's not clear how to quantify "how much" each contributes. What's important is the total effect.
 
OK, I guess where I must be going wrong is that I thought that without the acceleration the expansion would not be producing nearly as much redshift as it is because the recession velocity would not be as high as it is (within the observable universe)
 
Last edited:
phinds said:
without the acceleration the expansion would not be producing nearly as much redshift as it is

You're looking at it backwards. When I look at an object with a given redshift, I already know how much the universe has expanded between the object emitting the light and my seeing it--that's what the redshift tells me. What the redshift doesn't tell me is how long it took for the universe to expand by that factor--i.e., how long ago the light was emitted. That's what depends on the specifics of the dynamics--whether the dominant energy density is radiation, matter, or dark energy. So the variable is not really "how much expansion is produced" but "how long does it take to produce a given amount of expansion". But again, you can't really quantify individual effects of the different kinds of energy density on this; what's important is the total effect.
 
Interesting. Thanks.
 

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